From another forum, coach putting spit on ball

[RKBUmp]

"Noticed this weekend, opposing coach would pick up game ball to hand to his pitcher before she warmed up and spit in his hands and then rubbed the game ball and gave that ball to the pitcher in every inning. Blue said that was okay. Is it? (gross, definately....legal too?)"

Opinions?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

"Noticed this weekend, opposing coach would pick up game ball to hand to his pitcher before she warmed up and spit in his hands and then rubbed the game ball and gave that ball to the pitcher in every inning. Blue said that was okay. Is it? (gross, definately....legal too?)"

Opinions?

I suppose if he was playing under some rule set that allows applying a foreign substance to the ball it would be legal...
What rule set was he playing under?

[RKBUmp]

Not positive, I believe ASA. That was my opinion, I wouldnt allow a pitcher to do it, why would I allow a coach to do it?

[darkside]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I suppose if he was playing under some rule set that allows applying a foreign substance to the ball it would be legal...
What rule set was he playing under?

I don't believe the rules have to allow it. They have to "not allow" it to be illegal. And I can't find anywhere where a coach cannot do this between innings.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by darkside

I don't believe the rules have to allow it. They have to "not allow" it to be illegal. And I can't find anywhere where a coach cannot do this between innings.

ASA rules do not allow a "free pass" on applying a foreign substance on the ball between innings.....
Rule 6 Section 6. Foreign Substance/Protective Wraps
A. A defensive player shall not at any time during the game be allowed to use any foreign substance on the ball.

So now just looking at the coach's actions, what would we do if during an inning a coach goes out for a conference with the pitcher and at the end of the conference spits on the ball rubs it up and hands it to the pitcher?
(a) Call an IP for applying a foreign substance to the ball?
or...
(b) Do not call an IP because 6-6.A. only states that a defensive player cannot apply a foreign substance on the ball, and makes no reference to a coach doing it?

IMO the coach is violating the spirit of the rule and my gut says it's an IP, but I can't see where the rules would support my IP call.

FWIW, NCAA addresses it clearly:
10.13.2 No player or team personnel may apply moisture or a foreign substance to the ball or do anything else to deface the ball.
EFFECT
For the first offense, an illegal pitch shall be called as soon as the foreign substance touches the ball. On the second offense the pitcher shall be ejected.

[NCASAUmp]

Simple solution: dump the coach. He, of all people, should know better than to teach his players to do this.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Simple solution: dump the coach. He, of all people, should know better than to teach his players to do this.

Dump the coach on what grounds? Based on the sitch in the OP, what ASA rule would support an ejection of the coach?

[IRISHMAFIA]

You guys are worse than the coaches. GMAFB!

This is zippo, zero, nada, zilch, nil, nothing, not a damn thing. I do this to every ball I touch. You know how much I like baseball, but just why do you think umpires rub down a certain number of balls with Delaware River mud before every game?

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You guys are worse than the coaches. GMAFB!

This is zippo, zero, nada, zilch, nil, nothing, not a damn thing. I do this to every ball I touch. You know how much I like baseball, but just why do you think umpires rub down a certain number of balls with Delaware River mud before every game?

They indeed do - before the game.

Are you saying you would allow a coach to put anything on the ball between innings based on what's done prior to the game? Where do you draw the line? Most importantly, please site the supporting rule as well.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Dump the coach on what grounds? Based on the sitch in the OP, what ASA rule would support an ejection of the coach?

USC. If the players aren't allowed to do it, why would the coach ever be?

I hold the coach to higher standards than I do the players.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You guys are worse than the coaches. GMAFB!

This is zippo, zero, nada, zilch, nil, nothing, not a damn thing. I do this to every ball I touch. You know how much I like baseball, but just why do you think umpires rub down a certain number of balls with Delaware River mud before every game?

Yes, but you're the one doing it, not the coach. Does the coach hand it back to you for you to verify what's left on the ball?

Do I think the simple act of spitting on the ball really gives the pitcher much advantage? Nah, not really, but then why do we have a rule against the players doing it?

[NCASAUmp]

Other solution: go to pitcher's plate, ask for the ball from the coach, pull him/her aside and tell them plain and simple: "need me to scuff up the ball? I'll do it for you. Spit on the ball again, and it's sayonara. Thanks, Coach."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

They indeed do - before the game.

Are you saying you would allow a coach to put anything on the ball between innings based on what's done prior to the game? Where do you draw the line? Most importantly, please site the supporting rule as well.

Is that what I said and, BTW, the coach didn't put anything on the ball, did he?

BTW, YOU cite the rule forbidding the coach from doing what was described in the OP.

[Stu Clary]

Why is the coach handling the ball?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Is that what I said and, BTW, the coach didn't put anything on the ball, did he?

BTW, YOU cite the rule forbidding the coach from doing what was described in the OP.

So if a situation called for it, we would be OK using 6.6.A. with a coach if they were in some manner applying a foreign substance to the ball?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

So if a situation called for it, we would be OK using 6.6.A. with a coach if they were in some manner applying a foreign substance to the ball?

Don't know, would you?

Even if you thought you were, I believe this to be over-officiating at its extreme. This is one of those things that some umpire gets talked into enforcing by a coach because "rules are rules" and we end up with another ridiculous thread about TWPs.

Think about it. A coach moistens HIS HANDS (not the ball), picks up a ball and rubs it down, hands the ball to the pitcher who then throws five warm-up pitches to the catcher who is now handling the ball with her glove and throwing hand as many times as their are pitches, then throws the ball to F4 who throws the ball to F6 who throws the ball to F....well, you get the point.

So, after this ball has been thrown and caught in a glove 13 times, just what is going to happen on the first pitch that was effected by the coach spitting on his/her hands?

Oh, here it comes........EVEN IF the pitcher threw no warm-up pitches, the coach's actions would still would not affect the pitch.

Go ahead, make that call. What you do with the boogers you find is your business. I know it will not be mine.