You had to have been there - Story #2

[justcallmeblue]

This is long, but its worth the read and the lesson is: EVEN IF THE LEAGUE IS INSTRUCTIONAL, IMPROPER CONDUCT SHOULD BE HANDLED IMMEDIATELY AND PLAYERS/COACHES EJECTED JUST LIKE REGULAR SEASON. . . .

Again, I know what I SHOULD have done every step of the way, which was eject eject eject.

14U
Game 2: I just called a knee high 3rd strike and 3rd out a batter in a 0-0 game in the 4th inning with bases loaded. . . I hear some angry parent remarks coming from the hill where the parents were. . .the player is not happy and tosses her helmut and throws her bat after she left the field of play. NO BIGGIE. . .happens often enough.

That kid happened to be the catcher in the bottom 1/2.

SITUATION: R1 on 3B. . .sharp line drive to the 3B who throws ball home. . .Catcher misses the ball on what would have been a close play. . .But the catcher decides that she should lower her shoulder, step into the R1, kinda check her and wrap her arm around R1's waist instead of going after the ball. . .anyway, R1 finally touches home. Opposing coach doesnt way anything and I didnt know that R1 was pretty bruised up on the play until after the next inning's incident.

NEXT INNING. . .exact same situation, but this time the relay throw from 3B was spot on AND THE RUNNER HELD UP 5 FEET before the plate. HOWEVER, the catcher in her infinite wisdom, ran up to her and literally shoved her glove in the R1's chest and knocked her back a bit. . .It was a real aggressive play to which yelled "KNOCK IT OFF"- to the kid, then I called time and called for the her coach while the opposing coach was yelling about her conduct.

This kid was unreal. . .I was talking to the coach about the two plays and what I saw. . .AND THE KID KEPT TALKING BACK AT ME. . .telling me that she didnt do it, that I was not right, that I was picking on her. . . I looked at her first and said, DONT YOU REALIZE I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU BY TALKING TO YOUR COACH, CAN YOU PLEASE JUST LISTEN. . .to which she kept talking back at me.

I looked at the coach and said "if she keeps on doing this, I would need to eject BOTH OF YOU, but since this is instructional, let me try to help you by telling you what she did wrong and that if this was the regular season I would have ejected her immediately". . . Well, the kid decided she had enough of me and took herself out of the field - I did not eject anyone.

THIS STORY ISNT OVER QUITE YET. . . .

Now, that team is back at the plate. . .Their teammate is on 3B and attempts to steal home on a wild pitch. The ball literally bounces off the backstop and rolls right the catcher who blocks the plate perfectly, puts the ball on the ground and the R1 slides into the tag. . . IMMEDAITELY I HEAR A LOUD VOICE "Why isnt that play aggressive". . NOW, THERE WAS ANOTHER KID GETTING INVOLVED STANDING NEXT TO THE CATCHER. I looked at the two of them, turned to the coach and said to the coach, "if I hear their mouths, they are BOTH gone and you'd have to go too". . .to which one of the kids says "But I am not on the field, you shouldnt be listening to what I am saying". . .To which I said back, IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE EARLY, JUST SAY ONE MORE WORD AND I WILL EJECT YOU, AND YOU AND YOUR COACH. . . .They lost 2-1. . . .

I told the coach that I would report this misconduct and I will request that they NOTE his players involved and if this ever happens again, they will face discipline actions from the league including the possible ban from Spring Play. The coach thanked me for my patience, told me that he would have understood if I did eject him and his player/s and shook my hand

THEN END OF MY CRAZY NITE. . . now LETS GO JETS!!!

[ronald]

1st question. How long have you been an umpire?

2nd question. What emotions did you suppress to not eject?

[IRISHMAFIA]

This is why they don't need umpires in this situation.

You are the umpire, you are not an instructor. You call the rules. Explain any issues to the coach. If the coach cannot control his/her players, neither need to be there. Do not hesitate to get rid of anyone you need to if warranted. If they don't want the umpire to do their job, they should either not hire umpires or give them specific instructions on what NOT to call. But no matter what, there is no room for unsportsmanlike conduct no matter what the situation.

Much to the chagrin of many parents, an umpire is not there for the "girls", "kids", whatever. An umpire should not be there for his/herself or wallet. An umpire should be there for the game. Too many people forget the coaches are there to coach, the umpire is there to officiate. Any coach who believes an umpire should overlook something because "we are all here for the girls" is basically admitting his/her failure to properly prepare the player.

You can be a nice guy if you want, but you know where they finish

[SRW]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

...To which I said back, IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE EARLY, JUST SAY ONE MORE WORD AND I WILL EJECT YOU, AND YOU AND YOUR COACH.

[Skahtboi]

I know you said you know what you should have done in this case, but for the edification of others, let's review:

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

14U
Game 2: I just called a knee high 3rd strike and 3rd out a batter in a 0-0 game in the 4th inning with bases loaded. . . I hear some angry parent remarks coming from the hill where the parents were. . .the player is not happy and tosses her helmut and throws her bat after she left the field of play. NO BIGGIE. . .happens often enough.

At this point, if you saw it, heard it, and were aware of it, she should have been ejected. UC. Pretty simple.

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

That kid happened to be the catcher in the bottom 1/2.

Shouldn't have been. See previous comment.

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

SITUATION: R1 on 3B. . .sharp line drive to the 3B who throws ball home. . .Catcher misses the ball on what would have been a close play. . .But the catcher decides that she should lower her shoulder, step into the R1, kinda check her and wrap her arm around R1's waist instead of going after the ball. . .anyway, R1 finally touches home. Opposing coach doesnt way anything and I didnt know that R1 was pretty bruised up on the play until after the next inning's incident.

I don't care who you are, or if you just started umpiring this month. I don't care if this is fall league, spring league, winter league, summer league, whathehell league; there is no reason for this player to be standing on the field after this. None. She is now posing a threat to others. You are asking for injury by leaving her in the game.

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

NEXT INNING. . .exact same situation, but this time the relay throw from 3B was spot on AND THE RUNNER HELD UP 5 FEET before the plate. HOWEVER, the catcher in her infinite wisdom, ran up to her and literally shoved her glove in the R1's chest and knocked her back a bit. . .It was a real aggressive play to which yelled "KNOCK IT OFF"- to the kid, then I called time and called for the her coach while the opposing coach was yelling about her conduct.

That is because, for some reason, she is still on the field playing the game. She is starting to feel invincible. She is, after all, 14. She should be, at the very least, on the bench. In an ideal world, though, she should be well on her way home with mommy and daddy at this point.

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

This kid was unreal. . .I was talking to the coach about the two plays and what I saw. . .AND THE KID KEPT TALKING BACK AT ME. . .telling me that she didnt do it, that I was not right, that I was picking on her. . . I looked at her first and said, DONT YOU REALIZE I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU BY TALKING TO YOUR COACH, CAN YOU PLEASE JUST LISTEN. . .to which she kept talking back at me.

Of course she did. She is 14. I work with them every day. If you set the boundaries up front, they tend to adapt to them better. In this case, she should have been tossed at the very first infraction. She would remember that next game, or at least the next time she saw you. Then you probably would have seen an entirely different kid.

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

I looked at the coach and said "if she keeps on doing this, I would need to eject BOTH OF YOU, but since this is instructional, let me try to help you by telling you what she did wrong and that if this was the regular season I would have ejected her immediately". . . Well, the kid decided she had enough of me and took herself out of the field - I did not eject anyone.

Too bad. You let a perfectly good "teaching moment" slip by!

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

THIS STORY ISNT OVER QUITE YET. . . .

Why am I not surprised?

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

Now, that team is back at the plate. . .Their teammate is on 3B and attempts to steal home on a wild pitch. The ball literally bounces off the backstop and rolls right the catcher who blocks the plate perfectly, puts the ball on the ground and the R1 slides into the tag. . . IMMEDAITELY I HEAR A LOUD VOICE "Why isnt that play aggressive". . NOW, THERE WAS ANOTHER KID GETTING INVOLVED STANDING NEXT TO THE CATCHER. I looked at the two of them, turned to the coach and said to the coach, "if I hear their mouths, they are BOTH gone and you'd have to go too". . .to which one of the kids says "But I am not on the field, you shouldnt be listening to what I am saying". . .To which I said back, IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE EARLY, JUST SAY ONE MORE WORD AND I WILL EJECT YOU, AND YOU AND YOUR COACH. . . .They lost 2-1. . . .

Let me say this at this point. If you want to warn, that is fine. But do it once. Only once. Don't repeat it over and over, hoping that someone will catch on. Then it becomes nothing more than an empty threat, and everyone involved knows it. It is tough to pull the trigger on someone, I know. That it why many of us refer to this as the persons involved "ejected themselves." This young lady had asked you repeatedly to eject her, and you failed to do so. At the end, she was not only asking you to eject her, she was screaming at you to eject her, daring you to eject her. Again, you did nothing. So, regardless of the score here, both teams, and the officials, lost.

[youngump]

At this point, if you saw it, heard it, and were aware of it, she should have been ejected. UC. Pretty simple.

Seriously? For something directed at no one that happened in the dugout? Would you eject her if she yelled at her coach too?
________
SerennaHot

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

Seriously? For something directed at no one that happened in the dugout? Would you eject her if she yelled at her coach too?

Are you kidding? She threw her bat and her helmet. Night night.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by youngump

Seriously? For something directed at no one that happened in the dugout? Would you eject her if she yelled at her coach too?

See what Mike said. Throwing a bat and a helmet, while quite en vogue in the MLB, is considered textbook UC elsewhere.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Are you kidding? She threw her bat and her helmet. Night night.

Well, it depends on how she "threw" her bat and helmet. If she chucked it, that's one thing. But "throwing" a bat or helmet could mean anything from letting it drop with a little bit of "assistance" to chucking it a great distance or something in between.

If the player does something that can endanger others or something that's out of control, then I'll pitch 'em. If there was nothing dangerous about it or out of control, the most they'd probably get is a warning.

He saw it, we didn't.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, it depends on how she "threw" her bat and helmet. If she chucked it, that's one thing. But "throwing" a bat or helmet could mean anything from letting it drop with a little bit of "assistance" to chucking it a great distance or something in between.

If the player does something that can endanger others or something that's out of control, then I'll pitch 'em. If there was nothing dangerous about it or out of control, the most they'd probably get is a warning.

He saw it, we didn't.

True. And based on the "player was angry" part that preceded the helmet tossing and bat throwing, one is led to assume that in this case, the throwing was of a nature that was both out of control and did endanger others.

You're are right, he did see. We didn't. But considering the timbre of the post, do you really feel like this is a HTBT situation?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

He saw it, we didn't.

I will give you that blue was the man on the spot, and not us... but given that he's posted about 8 other reasons to automatically announce that the player or coach has ejected themselves ... and failed to do so on every count, I don't believe we can fairly judge that since blue didn't toss, that he was correct in the not-tossing.

I think that given an angry player AND a helmet AND a bat, we can safely assume this should have been ejection. I can't really see a whole lot of leniency on throwing a bat - that's almost always going to be a safety issue.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

True. And based on the "player was angry" part that preceded the helmet tossing and bat throwing, one is led to assume that in this case, the throwing was of a nature that was both out of control and did endanger others.

You're are right, he did see. We didn't. But considering the timbre of the post, do you really feel like this is a HTBT situation?

Of course I don't, but I don't want others to think that any kind of "throw" of equipment in the dugout is an automatic toss. Nor did I want to engage in the habit of second-guessing our fellow blues out there when we didn't see what happened.

I was also confusing this with the other post, which specified that it was a 10U game. This story comes from a 14U game. They have a bit more, shall we say... "oomf" behind the throwing of equipment. I was thinking, "how much force can a 10U kid generate in an instructional game?!"

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Of course I don't, but I don't want others to think that any kind of "throw" of equipment in the dugout is an automatic toss.

In spirit, my friend, I agree with you. But I was strictly addressing the OP. Hopefully as a learning tool for jcmblue and others who may be reading these posts in hopes of gleaning some information that they can use in the future.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

In spirit, my friend, I agree with you. But I was strictly addressing the OP. Hopefully as a learning tool for jcmblue and others who may be reading these posts in hopes of gleaning some information that they can use in the future.

No argument here, hombre. No argument here.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

i will give you that blue was the man on the spot, and not us... But given that he's posted about 8 other reasons to automatically announce that the player or coach has ejected themselves ... And failed to do so on every count, i don't believe we can fairly judge that since blue didn't toss, that he was correct in the not-tossing.

I think that given an angry player and a helmet and a bat, after a called 3rd strike (added by kj) we can safely assume this should have been ejection. I can't really see a whole lot of leniency on throwing a bat - that's almost always going to be a safety issue.

+1