I know it's been covered before, but I can't find the old thread

[txtrooper]

I am going to concede to the majority here and change the way I call it, thanks for the input.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by txtrooper

I am going to concede to the majority ...

Not that it matters, but the way you were calling it (with the "allowed two or three steps" thing) was the way I was taught and the way that I believe all organizations taught it several years back.

I believe it was somewhere around five years ago when the rule was changed to "one stop", which of course means as noted in an earlier post that the runner could run all the way, right up to 2B, before deciding to stop and go back. Though, realistically, that never happens.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

Not that it matters, but the way you were calling it (with the "allowed two or three steps" thing) was the way I was taught and the way that I believe all organizations taught it several years back.

I believe it was somewhere around five years ago when the rule was changed to "one stop", which of course means as noted in an earlier post that the runner could run all the way, right up to 2B, before deciding to stop and go back. Though, realistically, that never happens.

Don't know what rule set to which you are referring, but for ASA I'm pretty sure it has always been an allowance of one stop for the runner once the LBR was effective and I can document that back to, at least, 1999. The obvious exception is when the stop is while in contact with the base while the LBR is in effect. In 2000 the rule was adjusted to specifically cover the different scenarios of subsequent actions of the batter-runner after over running 1B.

And in my 22 years of ASA ball, I do not recall ever being trained or told of any distance, time or speed to which the runner must limit themselves to avoid being ruled out for an LBR violation.

I guess we also had to take into consideration that a decade or so ago, we did not have the large scale ability for ASA staff to communicate with the masses of mechanics and rule changes and clarifications. Back then it was the National UIC Clinics, but not all UICs would attend or go home and pass on the information to everyone. This probably left some areas to do the best they can in making their own decisions on rules and mechanics.

We still see that at some level when you hear about umpires still applying the old rules "about to receive", unreported sub penalties, re-entry allowances, etc. in their games and this is with the internet and the ability to get changes across in a heartbeat. Could be it is people not agreeing and making up their own rules, or just not paying attention to what they are told. It is not unusual to have people come up after a clinic to clarify an issue you just addressed and complete distort not only what was stated, but also displayed on a screen behind the clinician.

[txtrooper]

SC Ump, I was taught if a runner rounded first on a walk, they were committed to second; therefore stopping or would result in an out. I learned that from a senior umpire (16yrs Experience in ASA and NFHS) and it was confirmed by several other umpires. I believe the reason it is being taught, is the one IRISH mentioned in the last post. This forum has been a good resource for me the last couple of years and I have been able to clear up a few issues by interacting with the guys who contribute to the forum. Thanks again.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by txtrooper

SC Ump, I was taught if a runner rounded first on a walk, they were committed to second; therefore stopping or would result in an out. I learned that from a senior umpire (16yrs Experience in ASA and NFHS) and it was confirmed by several other umpires. I believe the reason it is being taught, is the one IRISH mentioned in the last post. This forum has been a good resource for me the last couple of years and I have been able to clear up a few issues by interacting with the guys who contribute to the forum. Thanks again.

I believe I was taught much the same in my first year in blue. At some point, I gained enough confidence (and book knowledge) to question some of the things I was being told - and quickly realized that sometimes 20 years of experience is really 1 year of experience repeated 20 times. Within 3 years in that area, all the old guard was gone, I was UIC, and everyone had to actually attend the clinics and pass the test.

Much of the old guard became coaches ... you know, the guy who gets ejected after an argument that started with, "You know, I used to be an umpire..."

[MigoP]

Fed rule on LBR. She can only commit to 2nd if she over runs and steps toward 2nd. She is then committed to 2nd. She can round,whether the balls in the circle or not, and crawl to 2nd until she stops. She must then decide immediately which way to go. I saw this play in high school regional game where girl rounds first and very slowly, without stopping creep towards 2nd. Runner was on 3rd and she was trying to make pitcher make play on her to attempt to get run home. Legal and smart play. AS long as she doesn't stop which makes her make an immediate decision which way to go.

[Skahtboi]

Hmmm....let's apply some language skills here. Migo=Me. Does that mean that P=Piano, possibly??? Are we being sent a cryptic message here?