Another Illegal Pitch Thread (With Poll)

[BlitzkriegBob]

Our association chair called me last night, asking my opinion of this play. We are in sectional play, NFHS Rules. She is the "1" for the crew working this sectional, but is not umpiring this game.

Tie game, bottom of 7th inning. R1 on 3B, one out. VC comes out to the circle. V team is going to intentionally walk the batter. On the first pitch, F3 is standing in foul territory when the pitch is delivered. Apparently she does not move as the pitch is being delivered, but rather is positioned there. IP is called by PU, game is over.

There were other circumstances that preceded this play, but since I don't know for sure if they played a part I am leaving those circumstances out for now.

I am attempting to include a poll with this thread...hopefully I can figure out how to do that.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by BlitzkriegBob

Our association chair called me last night, asking my opinion of this play. We are in sectional play, NFHS Rules. She is the "1" for the crew working this sectional, but is not umpiring this game.

Tie game, bottom of 7th inning. R1 on 3B, one out. VC comes out to the circle. V team is going to intentionally walk the batter. On the first pitch, F3 is standing in foul territory when the pitch is delivered. Apparently she does not move as the pitch is being delivered, but rather is positioned there. IP is called by PU, game is over.

There were other circumstances that preceded this play, but since I don't know for sure if they played a part I am leaving those circumstances out for now.

I am attempting to include a poll with this thread...hopefully I can figure out how to do that.

Do you mean VC in fourth option? I would judge whether distracted or positioned before deciding.

[BlitzkriegBob]

By HC I meant Head Coach. Sorry, I had reached the character limit and couldn't find any other ways to shorten that option.

[Steve M]

It is not my role to coach the players, especially during the playoffs - and even more especially when my coaching the players would prevent a team from winning or losing the game at that point in time.

Then again, I'm one who ended a state playoff game by making an illegal pitch call.

While that's not how I want a game to end, it is how the players chose(by their actions) to end the game.

[Tex]

I was not envolved in the writing of the NFHS rule book. But as an umpire, I must support and abide by the rules.

Rule 6-2-9 states that the pitcher shall not deliver a pitch until all defensive players are positioned in fair territory, except the catcher, who must be in the catcher's box. Penalty is an illegal pitch.

I made this call in a district game this year.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

I would treat this as the same as a batter not properly in the batters box prior to the pitch.......I would instruct the batter to take their place in the box......if they would not comply.......warn.....then.....possibly eject.

Joel

[AtlUmpSteve]

When VC came out, you granted time. For a next pitch to happen, you have to make the ball live.

As I understand our mechanics, you may not (are not permitted to) make the ball live unless 1) batter in the batters box, 2) catcher in the catchers box, 3) pitcher on the pitchers plate, 4) umpire ready and 5) all other 8 defensive players in fair territory.

So, you can't make the ball live, so the illegal pitch cannot happen that way. After a legal pitch, and with the ball live, it could happen; but not that way.

[BlitzkriegBob]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

When VC came out, you granted time. For a next pitch to happen, you have to make the ball live.

As I understand our mechanics, you may not (are not permitted to) make the ball live unless 1) batter in the batters box, 2) catcher in the catchers box, 3) pitcher on the pitchers plate, 4) umpire ready and 5) all other 8 defensive players in fair territory.

So, you can't make the ball live, so the illegal pitch cannot happen that way. After a legal pitch, and with the ball live, it could happen; but not that way.

Steve, that is exactly the point that I made while I was on the phone with her.

I was kind of wishy-washy on this, minus the suspension of play, and how I would handle it since I understand what I perceive as those who cite preventative umpiring to not allow the pitch and those who cite the coaching aspect of allowing the infraction to occur. However, I think I have been persuaded to join those who say to allow the infraction if we are in a live ball situation.

In this particular case though, since time was suspended, I would not have put the ball back in play until all the defensive players except the catcher were in fair territory.

I did find it very interesting that the poll was split almost down the middle with the answers. Did any of those who voted to allow the pitch to happen perhaps overlook that this was coming out of a suspension of play, and if so, would that change your vote?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

When VC came out, you granted time. For a next pitch to happen, you have to make the ball live.

As I understand our mechanics, you may not (are not permitted to) make the ball live unless 1) batter in the batters box, 2) catcher in the catchers box, 3) pitcher on the pitchers plate, 4) umpire ready and 5) all other 8 defensive players in fair territory.

So, you can't make the ball live, so the illegal pitch cannot happen that way. After a legal pitch, and with the ball live, it could happen; but not that way.

I thought the only requirement was that the pitcher be on the pitcher's plate...

[SergioJ]

Originally Posted by BlitzkriegBob

Our association chair called me last night, asking my opinion of this play. We are in sectional play, NFHS Rules. She is the "1" for the crew working this sectional, but is not umpiring this game.

Tie game, bottom of 7th inning. R1 on 3B, one out. VC comes out to the circle. V team is going to intentionally walk the batter. On the first pitch, F3 is standing in foul territory when the pitch is delivered. Apparently she does not move as the pitch is being delivered, but rather is positioned there. IP is called by PU, game is over.

There were other circumstances that preceded this play, but since I don't know for sure if they played a part I am leaving those circumstances out for now.

I am attempting to include a poll with this thread...hopefully I can figure out how to do that.

Wow, did this really happen in your area? Reason I ask is because this also happened at a regional playoff game here in Virginia last year.

Fredericksburg.com - HIGH SCHOOL SOFTBALL

Of course, in our state scenario (I was not there, but this was a highly talked about play throughout our state), the defensive coach asked one of the three umpires if she could position F4 in foul territory, behind the left-handed batters box. Umpires response was yes, then he conferred with his two partners, came back to his position, and repeated yes to DC. PU then signaled for pitch, and as soon as pitch was thrown, called IP. Runner at 3B came home for the winning run (score was tied, bottom of seventh).

Serg

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SergioJ

Wow, did this really happen in your area? Reason I ask is because this also happened at a regional playoff game here in Virginia last year.

Fredericksburg.com - HIGH SCHOOL SOFTBALL

Of course, in our state scenario (I was not there, but this was a highly talked about play throughout our state), the defensive coach asked one of the three umpires if she could position F4 in foul territory, behind the left-handed batters box. Umpires response was yes, then he conferred with his two partners, came back to his position, and repeated yes to DC. PU then signaled for pitch, and as soon as pitch was thrown, called IP. Runner at 3B came home for the winning run (score was tied, bottom of seventh).

Serg

Are you sure you weren't there? Sound like something devious that you would do?

That's a pretty cheap way of getting out of buying the beer for going to the 8th.

[SergioJ]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Are you sure you weren't there? Sound like something devious that you would do?

That's a pretty cheap way of getting out of buying the beer for going to the 8th.

No, wasn't there, but, I've got it in my memory bank for next time I come close to having to buy the "refreshments".

Actually, I happen to know the DC real good. She is a very good coach. But, I agreed that this was a cheap shot on the part of the blues.

[ronald]

sounds like one of those plays where the uic has to back the ump by rule then says to himself...