Question for the NCAA Guys RE: Illegal Pitch

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

"...for taking the signal from behind the plate."

That's the point...
There is no rule aginst taking a signal from behind the plate...
If the umpire called that anytime BEFORE the pitcher's hands came together, he was dead wrong.
If he called it anythime after, he mis-stated the offense.

BRETMAN: to answer your question in a word: YES

[BretMan]

While searching through the NCAA web site for an interpretation on this, I came across a "Ask the Expert" section, headed by one Dee Abrahamson. I sent her an email with this question, figuring that I probably wouldn't hear anything back. I was sure that the NCAA folks have better things to do with their time!

To my surprise, I received a reply this evening.

"You are absolutely correct...she can take as many signals as she wants BUT must take, or simulate taking, the last one once positioned on the pitcher's plate.
Hope you can pass that along to her.

Dee Abrahamson

Senior Associate Athletic Director/SWA
Northern Illinois University
Convocation Center Suite 200
NCAA Softball Secretary Rules Editor"

That works for me!

[Az.Ump]

Same thing Emily said.

Paul

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Az.Ump

Same thing Emily said.

Paul

Same thing I said!!

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by BretMan

While searching through the NCAA web site for an interpretation on this, I came across a "Ask the Expert" section, headed by one Dee Abrahamson. I sent her an email with this question, figuring that I probably wouldn't hear anything back. I was sure that the NCAA folks have better things to do with their time!

To my surprise, I received a reply this evening.

"You are absolutely correct...she can take as many signals as she wants BUT must take, or simulate taking, the last one once positioned on the pitcher's plate.
Hope you can pass that along to her.

Dee Abrahamson

Senior Associate Athletic Director/SWA
Northern Illinois University
Convocation Center Suite 200
NCAA Softball Secretary Rules Editor"

That works for me!

Works for me too. Get the answer straight from the boss.
BTW...you're lucky Bret, I sent her a question two weeks ago, got a form type e-mail confirmation that it was received....but still waiting for the answer to my question.
KJ

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

"You are absolutely correct...she can take as many signals as she wants BUT must take, or simulate taking, the last one once positioned on the pitcher's plate.


That works for me!

Just the highlighted part of the comment will screw up people. To start, no one, NO ONE, but the pitcher knows exactly where she is getting her signal which it is not required, so I have no idea why people insist on including it in an explanation of an interpretation.

I understand why it may be necessary to use in the rules for the purpose of a point of reference, but even noting a "signal" is to be received or taken at any point just tends to confuse the point of the rule.

You would think a comment as plain and simple as, "the pitcher must come to an obvious and deliberate stop while on the pitcher's plate with their hands separated" prior to beginning the pitch.

F.Y.I., I'm not just referring to the NCAA here, but all rule sets.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just the highlighted part of the comment will screw up people. To start, no one, NO ONE, but the pitcher knows exactly where she is getting her signal which it is not required, so I have no idea why people insist on including it in an explanation of an interpretation.

I understand why it may be necessary to use in the rules for the purpose of a point of reference, but even noting a "signal" is to be received or taken at any point just tends to confuse the point of the rule.

You would think a comment as plain and simple as, "the pitcher must come to an obvious and deliberate stop while on the pitcher's plate with their hands separated" prior to beginning the pitch.

F.Y.I., I'm not just referring to the NCAA here, but all rule sets.

There's your answer as to why none of the rule sets do it.....it's too plain, too simple, and makes too much common sense.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You would think a comment as plain and simple as, "the pitcher must come to an obvious and deliberate stop while on the pitcher's plate with their hands separated" prior to beginning the pitch.

Taking a signal or simulate taking a signal would also require that the pitcher be looking in at the catcher. So merely coming to an obvious and deliberate stop alone would not satisfy the requirements of the current rule. (What if the pitcher steps on, hands apart, motionless, but looking at the third baseman then brings her hands together to begin the pitch?)

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Taking a signal or simulate taking a signal would also require that the pitcher be looking in at the catcher. So merely coming to an obvious and deliberate stop alone would not satisfy the requirements of the current rule. (What if the pitcher steps on, hands apart, motionless, but looking at the third baseman then brings her hands together to begin the pitch?)

Is the purpose of the rule to regulate where the pitcher looks or is it to avoid a quick pitch?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Taking a signal or simulate taking a signal would also require that the pitcher be looking in at the catcher. So merely coming to an obvious and deliberate stop alone would not satisfy the requirements of the current rule. (What if the pitcher steps on, hands apart, motionless, but looking at the third baseman then brings her hands together to begin the pitch?)

You're picking nits here...with everything we are required by NCAA mechanics to watch as a crew regarding IP's, why would we make the choice to focus on this one aspect of the Pitching Procedure (10.2) section of the Pitching rule?
IMO....I wouldn't.
My mental checklist as she comes up to the pitcher's plate (for legality) are hand (apart), feet, ball at side or front, [B]"taking a signal"[/B] from the catcher, hands (together/touch and in my vision), hands separating as the pitch starts.
Was she looking at the catcher when she was "taking the signal"? Yes. I saw her glance at the catcher as she was turing her head to look at her 3rd baseman.

[RadioBlue]

Sorry. My intended point was missed.
The rule currently requires the pitcher to take the signal or simulate taking the signal while on the pitcher's plate. The point I was attempting to make is changing the rule to require the pitcher to "come to an obvious and deliberate stop while on the pitcher's plate with their hands separated" as Irish suggested is not a less-wordy and clearer representation of the current rule because the requirements of the two rules are not precisely the same.
Would it be better to have this be the wording of the rule? Absolutely! Would it be the same as what is in place currently? No.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

...Would it be the same as what is in place currently? No.

Wasn't that HIS point? The current rule mentions taking signals as a proxy for coming to a pause, not to regulate the taking of the signal per se.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Sorry. My intended point was missed.
The rule currently requires the pitcher to take the signal or simulate taking the signal while on the pitcher's plate. The point I was attempting to make is changing the rule to require the pitcher to "come to an obvious and deliberate stop while on the pitcher's plate with their hands separated" as Irish suggested is not a less-wordy and clearer representation of the current rule because the requirements of the two rules are not precisely the same.
Would it be better to have this be the wording of the rule? Absolutely! Would it be the same as what is in place currently? No.

Actually, I do see your point. OTOH, if you want to be that specific, coaches should be forbidden to give the pitchers signals prior to the pitch.

Yes, that is ridiculous, but if you insist on being specific.......