Appeal a turn toward second.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by shagpal

mike, you seem to be missing the point why paul might want to give the safe call.

Shagpal, I would not want to give a safe signal; I was trying to explain why I would be tempted to do so. AtlUmpSteve has it exactly right: a purported appeal is not necessarily an appeal, and if it is not, then the umpire manual does not require a response. I like his suggestion of saying "That is not an appeal" without a signal in lower-skilled games (say mediocre high school JV and lower).

If you have specific language in the umpire manual to back up your position that a response is required, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, citing the entire manual doesn't work; I looked and did not find pertinent language other than what Steve quoted. I did find "Umpires must guard against rendering decisions prematurely." (Section 1-Other Prerequisites-2)

[shagpal]

yes, I understand the position already laid out. the validity for doing nothing has already been established, but not the awkwardness and confusion doing nothing can cause, hence your temptation and my contention. nothing works for me for in a host of situations, but not for the panacea being hailed for this situation.

there is only one section in the umpires manual regarding appeals. it's on page 12 to 13, totaling 3 simple paragraphs. the last paragraph taken in whole and entirety does not reconcile w/ doing nothing. the key word that I find alarming being "wishes". wishes conveys desire & intention, whereas the do nothing camp is arguing validity.

I appreciate your engaging and candid response, but I am expecting for mikes (irishmafia) response, since he was most adamant.

Originally Posted by Paul L

Shagpal, I would not want to give a safe signal; I was trying to explain why I would be tempted to do so. AtlUmpSteve has it exactly right: a purported appeal is not necessarily an appeal, and if it is not, then the umpire manual does not require a response. I like his suggestion of saying "That is not an appeal" without a signal in lower-skilled games (say mediocre high school JV and lower).

If you have specific language in the umpire manual to back up your position that a response is required, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, citing the entire manual doesn't work; I looked and did not find pertinent language other than what Steve quoted. I did find "Umpires must guard against rendering decisions prematurely." (Section 1-Other Prerequisites-2)

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by shagpal

....but not the awkwardness and confusion doing nothing can cause...

How does this compare with the confusion caused by appearing to deny an appeal by signaling safe, when what you are really trying to convey is "that is not a proper appeal"?

[shagpal]

could you describe the confusion as you might see it?

I think it's agreed, it is desirable to convey nothing. the do nothing camp insists doing nothing conveys nothing, and that might apply in vacuum of a forum. but I don't think that is what it will convey when it is really applied.

I imagine that it will cause and exacerbate confusion at the worst possible moment. when that happens, the do nothing will be largely the target of blame, since the do nothing will likely be the draw of attention and highly culpable in creating confusion.

Originally Posted by Dakota

How does this compare with the confusion caused by appearing to deny an appeal by signaling safe, when what you are really trying to convey is "that is not a proper appeal"?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by shagpal

could you describe the confusion as you might see it?..

I already did.

[shagpal]

okie, sorry, the thread has gotten quite long, and some replies are very hard to follow, so lemme go back thru and see what you posted.

Originally Posted by Dakota

I already did.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by shagpal

yes, I understand the position already laid out. the validity for doing nothing has already been established, but not the awkwardness and confusion doing nothing can cause, hence your temptation and my contention. nothing works for me for in a host of situations, but not for the panacea being hailed for this situation.

there is only one section in the umpires manual regarding appeals. it's on page 12 to 13, totaling 3 simple paragraphs. the last paragraph taken in whole and entirety does not reconcile w/ doing nothing. the key word that I find alarming being "wishes". wishes conveys desire & intention, whereas the do nothing camp is arguing validity.

I appreciate your engaging and candid response, but I am expecting for mikes (irishmafia) response, since he was most adamant.

shagpal,
You wouldn't happen to be a lawyer in your day job, would you?

[shagpal]

you got the question wrong. the question is, are you judge?

Originally Posted by argodad

shagpal,
You wouldn't happen to be a lawyer in your day job, would you?