Batter-runner overruns 1st base, makes an "attempt" to go to 2nd....

[Stevetheump]

What - in your mind - constitutes an "attempt?"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

What - in your mind - constitutes an "attempt?"

My mind thinking it is

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

My mind thinking it is

Sums it up rather succinctly.

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

My mind thinking it is

I agree, irish. If the runner makes ME think he made an attempt, then he's "in jeopardy" if he's tagged while off the base. I don't believe in "fakes" or "feints." Either he makes an attempt or he does not.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

My mind thinking it is

Ditto

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

I agree, irish. If the runner makes ME think he made an attempt, then he's "in jeopardy" if he's tagged while off the base. I don't believe in "fakes" or "feints." Either he makes an attempt or he does not.

Then we may not agree. How can you not believe in something which obviously occurs?

Either the BR runs through the base or they do not. The only other option is stopping on the base. If the BR does anything which makes me feel I need to be prepared to head toward 2B, whether a turn, deke, even the dip of a shoulder, IMJ, the runner is in jeopardy. I'm not referring to slight movements, but something that gets my attention.

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Then we may not agree. How can you not believe in something which obviously occurs?

Either the BR runs through the base or they do not. The only other option is stopping on the base. If the BR does anything which makes me feel I need to be prepared to head toward 2B, whether a turn, deke, even the dip of a shoulder, IMJ, the runner is in jeopardy. I'm not referring to slight movements, but something that gets my attention.

I've seen MLB infielders (esp at 2nd base on a hit and run), "deke" the runner in to thinking they are about to receive a thrown ball. Now, IF the runner slows down or stops because of this "dekeing," isn't that "obstruction?" If so, the MLB umps aren't calling it.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

I've seen MLB infielders (esp at 2nd base on a hit and run), "deke" the runner in to thinking they are about to receive a thrown ball. Now, IF the runner slows down or stops because of this "dekeing," isn't that "obstruction?" If so, the MLB umps aren't calling it.

different rule set

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

I've seen MLB infielders (esp at 2nd base on a hit and run), "deke" the runner in to thinking they are about to receive a thrown ball. Now, IF the runner slows down or stops because of this "dekeing," isn't that "obstruction?" If so, the MLB umps aren't calling it.

Couldn't care less what MLB umpires do. Different rules, different field, different priorities, different game.

And WTF does that have to do with a BR overrunning 1B?

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

I've seen MLB infielders (esp at 2nd base on a hit and run), "deke" the runner in to thinking they are about to receive a thrown ball. Now, IF the runner slows down or stops because of this "dekeing," isn't that "obstruction?" If so, the MLB umps aren't calling it.

MLB umpires don't call this because it is legal under OBR.

[greymule]

Obviously, the word attempt as applied to the BR overrunning 1B would probably mean one thing to a person involved in softball and something different to a general observer.

In a lower-level SP game a few years ago, a batter lined a hit to right field and trotted rather casually toward 1B. F10 fielded the ball on one hop and, seeing that the BR was not yet at 1B and not running hard, made a lazy toss to F6 at 2B. The BR, seeing the throw lobbed in, made an unenergetic turn at 1B and, with his head down, took three steps toward 2B. F6 fired the ball to F3, who tagged the BR out as he was walking back to the bag.

Remember the level that I mentioned. The incredulous OC came out to inform me that "[the BR] has to make an attempt," to which I responded, "Three steps toward 2B is an attempt."

If one uninformed spectator had asked another, "Did he attempt to go to 2B?" the answer would have been "no" in the generic sense. But we all know that in softball (or baseball), he did make an attempt.

I've had girls' FP coaches claim what many of you have probably heard: "she never stepped into fair territory," "she was just trying to find the ball," "she was just trying to see if she had a chance to make it," etc., all with the claim of "not an attempt."

One of the guys I work with defines it, and explains it to coaches as, "an aggressive move," and that has worked for me, too.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by greymule

The incredulous OC came out to inform me that "[the BR] has to make an attempt," to which I responded, "Three steps toward 2B is an attempt."

With no overthrow to consider or entice a runner, the BR simply made a routine turn at 1B and was caught off base. I wouldn't even think in terms of an "attempt". I think it's more like lazy move runner.

[greymule]

"I think it's more like lazy move runner."

Yes, it really had nothing to do with overrunning the bag; it was just low-level ineptitude.

Actually, I saw Jim Bouton do the same thing in the majors. He reached on some kind of hit or error and loped around 1B and didn't even realize he was out when they tagged him. The ump realized it though. I guess Bouton didn't have a lot of experience with baserunning.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Look at it this way. If the ball gets by F6, that lazy runner will be more than happy to stroll into 2B. And if they throw that runner out would you return the runner to 1B because s/he wasn't "attempting" to advance?

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by greymule

Obviously, the word attempt as applied to the BR overrunning 1B would probably mean one thing to a person involved in softball and something different to a general observer.

In a lower-level SP game a few years ago, a batter lined a hit to right field and trotted rather casually toward 1B. F10 fielded the ball on one hop and, seeing that the BR was not yet at 1B and not running hard, made a lazy toss to F6 at 2B. The BR, seeing the throw lobbed in, made an unenergetic turn at 1B and, with his head down, took three steps toward 2B. F6 fired the ball to F3, who tagged the BR out as he was walking back to the bag.

Remember the level that I mentioned. The incredulous OC came out to inform me that "[the BR] has to make an attempt," to which I responded, "Three steps toward 2B is an attempt."

If one uninformed spectator had asked another, "Did he attempt to go to 2B?" the answer would have been "no" in the generic sense. But we all know that in softball (or baseball), he did make an attempt.

I've had girls' FP coaches claim what many of you have probably heard: "she never stepped into fair territory," "she was just trying to find the ball," "she was just trying to see if she had a chance to make it," etc., all with the claim of "not an attempt."

One of the guys I work with defines it, and explains it to coaches as, "an aggressive move," and that has worked for me, too.

grey - One thing you have to remember is the word "fan" is short for "fanatic." Fans (and some coaches) go bonkers because they do not understand the rules (most times, they don't READ the rules, let alone understand them). Also remember, no matter what we call, we are going to *iss off 50 percent of the people 100 percent of the time." So....just go out there and give it your best.