must obstructed runner physically touch base?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Thanx for everyone's replies. I think I had it mostly right in the game.

Had the defense appealed the runner missing home, I was prepared to rule her out and anticipated a mess to follow. That's why I was hoping to get by the next pitch.

I made a mistake after the game during discussing with the offensive coach from the situation. He was getting the message that something else needed to be done when I told him a couple of times that the runner was awarded home. So he asked "what the catch was" and I told him that his runner should then have touched HP. In retrospect, because his runner had entered the dugout, that information was not correct. If she had stayed on the field, or gone over to talk to her coach, I think it would have been OK. So I did learn/clarify that piece of the situation.

A couple of more options to the original post, if you could indulge me.

1) When F2 throws to 3B, R1 goes to the dugout; throw goes into LF and BR then scores. Defense does appeal R1 missing home. That run is negated. Would the BR's run still count? [I think it would, since it's a timing situation.]
2) When R1 slides into F2, she bangs her knee and cannot stand up. This isn't a line drive to the pitcher's head situation, so no time out called, play continues. Again, throw goes into LF and BR attempts to score. She runs past R1, prone along the 3B line and touches HP. I think the proper call is to immediately rule BR out for passing a previous BR. Now we have the 3rd out of the inning. But since we had obstruction, and R1 is awarded HP, if she can get up or crawl over to HP and touch it, would her run count?

Thanx again.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

1) When F2 throws to 3B, R1 goes to the dugout; throw goes into LF and BR then scores. Defense does appeal R1 missing home. That run is negated. Would the BR's run still count? [I think it would, since it's a timing situation.]

Speaking ASA

If the appeal at home was the 3rd out of the inning, or a 4th out, the run would not count. (5.5.B.3 & C)

2) When R1 slides into F2, she bangs her knee and cannot stand up. This isn't a line drive to the pitcher's head situation, so no time out called, play continues.

Huh? What does the pitcher or a line drive have to do with a runner sliding into home?

Again, throw goes into LF and BR attempts to score. She runs past R1, prone along the 3B line and touches HP. I think the proper call is to immediately rule BR out for passing a previous BR. Now we have the 3rd out of the inning. But since we had obstruction, and R1 is awarded HP, if she can get up or crawl over to HP and touch it, would her run count?

That's a damn good question and to be honest, I can sell it both ways. By the letter of the rule, the answer would be no. Common sense and using the intent of the obstruction rule, it could be yes.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

1) When F2 throws to 3B, R1 goes to the dugout; throw goes into LF and BR then scores. Defense does appeal R1 missing home. That run is negated. Would the BR's run still count? [I think it would, since it's a timing situation.]
2) When R1 slides into F2, she bangs her knee and cannot stand up. This isn't a line drive to the pitcher's head situation, so no time out called, play continues. Again, throw goes into LF and BR attempts to score. She runs past R1, prone along the 3B line and touches HP. I think the proper call is to immediately rule BR out for passing a previous BR. Now we have the 3rd out of the inning. But since we had obstruction, and R1 is awarded HP, if she can get up or crawl over to HP and touch it, would her run count?

Thanx again.

Timing doesn't matter; no runner following the runner that makes the third out can score.

Like Mike, I agree it can be a hairy call on Q2. I would agree that the preceding runner being awarded home should be allowed to score; and her ability to crawl there isn't pertinent, as a sub can complete the running of an injured player.

I would love to rely on the wording of "and all other runners affected" to not call the out on BR, but the clear exception of passing makes that difficult (although it does specify that exception to the obstructed runner, not necessarily to others affected by the obstruction, so I might have an argument).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I would love to rely on the wording of "and all other runners affected" to not call the out on BR, but the clear exception of passing makes that difficult (although it does specify that exception to the obstructed runner, not necessarily to others affected by the obstruction, so I might have an argument).

See, this is where things get touchy with coaches. The rule squarely place the onus of properly calling all situations correctly. In a perfect world, the trailing runners should stop and not pass another active runner and TRUST the umpire to rule accordingly.

As we see on this and other boards, not to mention the field, some umpires take it upon themselves (or the direction of others who think they are the Ford Co. and have "a better idea") to interject their perception of "fairness" into the game.

Hell, you guys in CA don't call ****! According to the parents and coaches, illegal pitches, obstruction and interference are NEVER called in CA!

Therefore, you cannot be trusted and the coaches have to take matters into their own hands and then challenge you to "ignore" the correct call.

The rules are there to level the playing field. Many forget there are two teams out there and what may seem fair for one may actually negate the good and proper play by the other.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Huh? What does the pitcher or a line drive have to do with a runner sliding into home?

It has nothing to do with this play. I tried to illustrate a game situation where I would likely immediately call time out. In this case R1 did not require immediate medical attention. She could survive with an "owie" for another few seconds.

[Tru_in_Blu]

We've previously discussed the situation with runners on base and the BR hits an over the fence HR and passes the runner on 1B. (Let's not muddy this w/ the SP version and no one has to run any bases.)

In a situation with 2 outs if this happens, the BR is immediately declared out, but all preceeding runners are allowed to score, even after the third out has been made.

Now the HR is a dead ball so the preceeding runners are allowed to score.

In my situation when R1 is hurt after the obstruction, we have a delayed dead ball. R1 wasn't the runner who passed another runner as mentioned, but the BR, I think, should be called out for passing another runner.

If the preceeding runners can score on a "grand slam single", I'm inclined to allow R1 to score since she was obstructed, we had a delayed dead ball, and she's entitled to HP.

I'm sure a lot of you veteran umps could sell it either way. By rule, what's the proper call?