U Trip Slow Pitch help

[Skahtboi]

From page 46 of the current USSSA Slo-Pitch Rule book:

1. When a batted ball, either Fair or Foul, is legally caught on the fly
while the Fielder’s feet are still within the established lines of the playing
area, the Batter is out even though the Fielder’s momentum may cause him
to fall over the fence, into a dugout; or patron areas, or cross a line, or
marking the out of play area, provided in the Umpire’s judgment the catch
was completed. The ball is declared dead and each and every Runner is
advanced one base after the catch. If ball is carried intentionally into a dead
ball area, two bases are awarded to each Base Runner.

From this citation it sounds as if your partner was correct.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

From page 46 of the current USSSA Slo-Pitch Rule book:



From this citation it sounds as if your partner was correct.

... my question is, in USSSA that one base is back to the base that he would have needed to touch. Right?

I know that:
R1 at 1B, batter hits line drive to F1 who snags it, throws quickly to F3 to double runner off 1B. F1 throws ball over F3 and out of play. R1 had not retouched 1B when the throw was released. Runner is awarded 2 bases, but one of them is the retouch of 1B and they end up at 2B.

So in OP, runner just back to base that they needed to touch?

[7in60]

Originally Posted by referee99

I know that:
R1 at 1B, batter hits line drive to F1 who snags it, throws quickly to F3 to double runner off 1B. F1 throws ball over F3 and out of play. R1 had not retouched 1B when the throw was released. Runner is awarded 2 bases, but one of them is the retouch of 1B and they end up at 2B.

Really? By Softball Ontario rules R1 has already attained 1st, so a 2-base award would put him/her at 3rd. The direction he\she is moving in is irrelevant. However, he/she must retouch first or the defense can appeal a missed base.

Originally Posted by referee99

... my question is, in USSSA that one base is back to the base that he would have needed to touch. Right?

I know that:
R1 at 1B, batter hits line drive to F1 who snags it, throws quickly to F3 to double runner off 1B. F1 throws ball over F3 and out of play. R1 had not retouched 1B when the throw was released. Runner is awarded 2 bases, but one of them is the retouch of 1B and they end up at 2B.
So in OP, runner just back to base that they needed to touch?

In the OP, your answer would be no, because it doesn't matter what their movement was. Runner would be awarded 2B. Of course, he would still need to tag up, otherwise could be out on appeal.

In the posting above (highlighted in blue), the award should be 3B. A retouch of the base is not considered one of the awarded bases. It's where the runner was at the time of the hit. I've had this highlighted situation so many times I practically have it memorized and I've had so many players b***h a storm over it in league play. Again, the runner would still need to tag up, or be called out on appeal.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

In the posting above (highlighted in blue), the award should be 3B. A retouch of the base is not considered one of the awarded bases. It's where the runner was at the time of the hit.

I don't work any USSSA slow pitch (or, really much slow pitch of any variety, for that matter). But this and other U-Trip questions come up often enough on various discussion boards that I've downloaded their rule book for future reference.

My understanding was that USSSA is the "exception to the rule" from the rest of the softball world when it comes to awarding bases on this play (ball thrown out-of-play before runner has re-touched following a caught batted ball).

What is the intent behind the final sentence of the "EFFECT" following their rule 8-7-F?

8-7: Baserunners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out...(F) When a ball is live after a batted ball and is overthrown into foul territory and is blocked.

EFFECT Sec. 7. F. In all cases, when a blocked ball occurs on an overthrown live ball, the ball is immediately dead. Each and every Base Runner is awarded two bases from last base occupied, unless required to retouch.

(For the guys here that "speak ASA", the USSSA definition of a "blocked ball" is the same as the ASA definition of an "overthrow". Their definition of a throw that goes into dead ball area is that it's a "blocked ball".)

And then there is this:

8-9: Baserunners may, and shall, return to bases at various times...(D) A Base Runner returning to a base to retag a base on a fly ball caught and thrown by a Fielder to any base. If the ball is thrown by a Fielder into the restricted area, the Base Runner shall be awarded the base he must retouch, plus one base. Since the Base Runner is required to regain the base he first occupied, he is awarded that base and only one more.

Sounds to me like the runner in question is only getting second base, not third!

Originally Posted by BretMan

I don't work any USSSA slow pitch (or, really much slow pitch of any variety, for that matter). But this and other U-Trip questions come up often enough on various discussion boards that I've downloaded their rule book for future reference.

My understanding was that USSSA is the "exception to the rule" from the rest of the softball world when it comes to awarding bases on this play (ball thrown out-of-play before runner has re-touched following a caught batted ball).

What is the intent behind the final sentence of the "EFFECT" following their rule 8-7-F?

8-7: Baserunners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out...(F) When a ball is live after a batted ball and is overthrown into foul territory and is blocked.

EFFECT Sec. 7. F. In all cases, when a blocked ball occurs on an overthrown live ball, the ball is immediately dead. Each and every Base Runner is awarded two bases from last base occupied, unless required to retouch.

(For the guys here that "speak ASA", the USSSA definition of a "blocked ball" is the same as the ASA definition of an "overthrow". Their definition of a throw that goes into dead ball area is that it's a "blocked ball".)

And then there is this:

8-9: Baserunners may, and shall, return to bases at various times...(D) A Base Runner returning to a base to retag a base on a fly ball caught and thrown by a Fielder to any base. If the ball is thrown by a Fielder into the restricted area, the Base Runner shall be awarded the base he must retouch, plus one base. Since the Base Runner is required to regain the base he first occupied, he is awarded that base and only one more.

Sounds to me like the runner in question is only getting second base, not third!

I can't speak for the intent of that wording, however, when I asked about that in a rules meeting, and asked my local UIC last night, the answer was the same, 3B would be the award. After reading it last night, and again this morning, I've concluded you have to read the WHOLE section to make sure you've got it all. But I plan to really dig into this a little and needle the instructor and UIC at the next rules meeting we have next winter.

I stand corrected, after reading the rule. However, the sitch you described related to this came up in a rules meeting, and the interpretation we got was that 3B would be the correct award. I may needle the instructor next time on this one as well.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by referee99

... my question is, in USSSA that one base is back to the base that he would have needed to touch. Right?

I know that:
R1 at 1B, batter hits line drive to F1 who snags it, throws quickly to F3 to double runner off 1B. F1 throws ball over F3 and out of play. R1 had not retouched 1B when the throw was released. Runner is awarded 2 bases, but one of them is the retouch of 1B and they end up at 2B.

So in OP, runner just back to base that they needed to touch?

No. This is a different animal. The ball was carried into dead ball territory. The runners would be ADVANCED one base from the one they had previously attained.

[steveshane67]

just in case anyone cares, in baseball this is know as a catch and carry.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

just in case anyone cares, in baseball....

No one cares.