U Trip Slow Pitch help

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Highlighted in red is NOT true. That's the "general" assumption everyone makes. No where in the USSSA book does it say a player starts with a 1-1 count. I got reamed by an UIC in championship play in my 2nd or 3rd year for doing this. They start with a 0-0 count, but only get 2 strikes as opposed to 3, 3 balls as opposed to 4.

Good catch and clarification. It's been years since I've done U-Trip (about 13, actually), so the details are still a bit fuzzy.

Sorry for any confusion!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Highlighted in red is NOT true. That's the "general" assumption everyone makes. No where in the USSSA book does it say a player starts with a 1-1 count. I got reamed by an UIC in championship play in my 2nd or 3rd year for doing this. They start with a 0-0 count, but only get 2 strikes as opposed to 3, 3 balls as opposed to 4.

Which a group can do when their rule book addresses one game. With ASA, it was easier to sell the "assume a 1-1 count" to those who deal with multiple games under the same set of rules.

Originally Posted by BretMan

I don't work any USSSA slow pitch (or, really much slow pitch of any variety, for that matter). But this and other U-Trip questions come up often enough on various discussion boards that I've downloaded their rule book for future reference.

My understanding was that USSSA is the "exception to the rule" from the rest of the softball world when it comes to awarding bases on this play (ball thrown out-of-play before runner has re-touched following a caught batted ball).

What is the intent behind the final sentence of the "EFFECT" following their rule 8-7-F?

8-7: Baserunners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out...(F) When a ball is live after a batted ball and is overthrown into foul territory and is blocked.

EFFECT Sec. 7. F. In all cases, when a blocked ball occurs on an overthrown live ball, the ball is immediately dead. Each and every Base Runner is awarded two bases from last base occupied, unless required to retouch.

(For the guys here that "speak ASA", the USSSA definition of a "blocked ball" is the same as the ASA definition of an "overthrow". Their definition of a throw that goes into dead ball area is that it's a "blocked ball".)

And then there is this:

8-9: Baserunners may, and shall, return to bases at various times...(D) A Base Runner returning to a base to retag a base on a fly ball caught and thrown by a Fielder to any base. If the ball is thrown by a Fielder into the restricted area, the Base Runner shall be awarded the base he must retouch, plus one base. Since the Base Runner is required to regain the base he first occupied, he is awarded that base and only one more.

Sounds to me like the runner in question is only getting second base, not third!

I can't speak for the intent of that wording, however, when I asked about that in a rules meeting, and asked my local UIC last night, the answer was the same, 3B would be the award. After reading it last night, and again this morning, I've concluded you have to read the WHOLE section to make sure you've got it all. But I plan to really dig into this a little and needle the instructor and UIC at the next rules meeting we have next winter.

I stand corrected, after reading the rule. However, the sitch you described related to this came up in a rules meeting, and the interpretation we got was that 3B would be the correct award. I may needle the instructor next time on this one as well.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by referee99

... my question is, in USSSA that one base is back to the base that he would have needed to touch. Right?

I know that:
R1 at 1B, batter hits line drive to F1 who snags it, throws quickly to F3 to double runner off 1B. F1 throws ball over F3 and out of play. R1 had not retouched 1B when the throw was released. Runner is awarded 2 bases, but one of them is the retouch of 1B and they end up at 2B.

So in OP, runner just back to base that they needed to touch?

No. This is a different animal. The ball was carried into dead ball territory. The runners would be ADVANCED one base from the one they had previously attained.

[steveshane67]

just in case anyone cares, in baseball this is know as a catch and carry.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

just in case anyone cares, in baseball....

No one cares.