Interference and force out

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, if it was the BR who picked up the assumed to be foul ball, you'd still rule the run scores (INT trumps)?

That's a different scenario.

5.5.B: No run shall be scored if the third out of the inning is the result of:
1. A batter-runner being called out prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner. On an appeal play, the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occurred.

In the OP, R2 wasn't "forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner", they were declared out on INT. In your sitch, the BR was "called out prior to reaching first base."

I think I'm still holding a timing play in the OP...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by SRW

That's a different scenario.

But covered by the same rule.

Originally Posted by SRW

In the OP, R2 wasn't "forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner", they were declared out on INT. In your sitch, the BR was "called out prior to reaching first base."

As I said, two quotes from the same rule.

Originally Posted by SRW

I think I'm still holding a timing play in the OP...

And it is certainly not at all impossible, or even improbable, that ASA would agree with you. They've done sillier things. It just seems to me that both runners (R2 in the OP and BR in my version) are out under the same rule and should be treated the same and that committing INT should not be a means of converting a force situation into a timing play.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Dakota

As I said, two quotes from the same rule.

Yes, but no. BR out is rule 7, R out is rule 8. Both covered in "run does not score" rule 5.

I know I could argue both ways, I'm just siding with the timing play on this more than the force out. I don't see how it's written in any part that this could be a force. It's INT, plain as day... and I don't recall ever seeing anything where a form of INT on a R constitutes (or could constitute) a F/O.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by SRW

Yes, but no. BR out is rule 7, R out is rule 8. Both covered in "run does not score" rule 5.

I know I could argue both ways, I'm just siding with the timing play on this more than the force out. I don't see how it's written in any part that this could be a force. It's INT, plain as day... and I don't recall ever seeing anything where a form of INT on a R constitutes (or could constitute) a F/O.

I was referring to rule 5, since that is the crux of the discussion (does the run score, not whether the runner is out).

If the interference rule trumps the force situation, how about this:

R1 on 3B. R2 on 1B. 2 outs. Squeeze play on, but the bunt is a bit vigorous and makes it to F4, who picks up the ball and is preparing to tag R2. R2 slaps F4's arm, knocking the ball out of F4's hand, but after R1 has crossed home.

INT and run scores? Make this a tie score and the bottom of the 7th and, oh boy, we're havin' fun now!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

After reading all of the post so far in this thread, I have trouble scoring the run in this situation.

1) When B4 became a B/R, R2 was forced to move to 2B. R2 was out before reaching 2B. Therefore, R3 does not score.

2) I cannot think that the rules would allow the offense to score a run by committing interference.

3) R2 is an idiot.

MTD, Sr.



P.S. Immediately after submitting this post, I discussed the play with MTD, Jr., and he asked the following question: If R2's interference caused an infielder from making a play on the B/R at 1B, could the umpires unilaterally impose an advantageous fourth (4th) out?