Opinions please.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Runner 1 on first base, 2 outs. Slow roller hit to second baseman waiting in base line to field batted ball. Second baseman does not field the ball but attempts to tag the runner. Second baseman does not have possession of the ball. The tag trips the runner. Runner gets up and continues on to second base while second baseman picks up ball and throws to shortstop who gets the force out. I ruled obstruction. Anyone "see" anything different?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Runner 1 on first base, 2 outs. Slow roller hit to second baseman waiting in base line to field batted ball. Second baseman does not field the ball but attempts to tag the runner. Second baseman does not have possession of the ball. The tag trips the runner. Runner gets up and continues on to second base while second baseman picks up ball and throws to shortstop who gets the force out. I ruled obstruction. Anyone "see" anything different?

Speaking ASA? Can't say I do. The fielder was not in the act of fielding a batted ball, but was in the act of doing something else instead. If she abandoned her attempt to field the batted ball on her own (ie., not caused by a runner's actions), then that's her mistake, and she loses her protection from an OBS call.

[MrRabbit]

Lets try Fake Tag - Rule 1 and R/S 19.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Runner 1 on first base, 2 outs. Slow roller hit to second baseman waiting in base line to field batted ball. Second baseman does not field the ball but attempts to tag the runner. Second baseman does not have possession of the ball. The tag trips the runner. Runner gets up and continues on to second base while second baseman picks up ball and throws to shortstop who gets the force out. I ruled obstruction. Anyone "see" anything different?

Im having a hard time visualizing the play. Did F4 make a "phantom tag" while the ball was still rolling to him/her or did the ball fail to make it into their glove and they tried to field the ball and make the tag all in one motion?

Was the runner running behind or in front of F4?

8-5-B-4

RUNNERS ARE ENTITLED TO ADVANCE WITHOUT LIABILITY TO BE
PUT OUT.

When a fielder not in possession of the ball or not in the act of fielding a
batted ball, obstructs the progress of a runner or batter-runner.

When a runner, while advancing or returning to a base
a. Is obstructed by a fielder who neither has the ball or
b. Is attempting to field a batted or thrown ball, or
c. When a fielder fakes a tag without the ball

8-7-J

THE RUNNER IS OUT.

When a runner interferes:
1. With a fielder attempting to field a batted fair ball or a foul fly ball, or
2. With a fielder attempting to throw the ball, or
3) With a thrown ball.
EFFECT: If this interference, in the umpire’s judgment is an attempt to prevent
a double play and occurs before the runner is put out, the immediate
trailing runner shall also be called out.
4. Intentionally with any defensive player having the opportunity to make
an out with the deflected batted ball.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and the runner is out. All other runners must return
to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

I think these would be the 2 pertinent rules, depending on how you see the situation develop, but I think you either have nothing if it was a catch the ball in 1 motion and try to apply a tag (maybe same principle as the "tangle play") or OBS on F4 for applying a "phantom tag"

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

... she [F4}loses her protection from an OBS call.

you mean INT call?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Runner 1 on first base, 2 outs. Slow roller hit to second baseman waiting in base line to field batted ball. Second baseman does not field the ball but attempts to tag the runner. Second baseman does not have possession of the ball. The tag trips the runner. Runner gets up and continues on to second base while second baseman picks up ball and throws to shortstop who gets the force out. I ruled obstruction. Anyone "see" anything different?

No.

[azgreg]

From the info provided you got it right imo.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Runner 1 on first base, 2 outs. Slow roller hit to second baseman waiting in base line to field batted ball. Second baseman does not field the ball but attempts to tag the runner. Second baseman does not have possession of the ball. The tag trips the runner. Runner gets up and continues on to second base while second baseman picks up ball and throws to shortstop who gets the force out. I ruled obstruction. Anyone "see" anything different?

Of course, not, we weren't there

Sounds like a solid call to me. Don't know the condition of the runner, but if that trip caused any level of injury, F4 may be heading to the parking lot.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Of course, not, we weren't there

Sounds like a solid call to me. Don't know the condition of the runner, but if that trip caused any level of injury, F4 may be heading to the parking lot.

Just for clarification, are you suggesting using the level of injury to determine malicious contact or unsportsmanlike behavior?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by topper

Just for clarification, are you suggesting using the level of injury to determine malicious contact or unsportsmanlike behavior?

Are we still keeping the running redundancy joke alive?

Malicious contact is unsportsmanlike behavior.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

Just for clarification, are you suggesting using the level of injury to determine malicious contact or unsportsmanlike behavior?

Just for clarification, just where did I suggest that be the case?

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just for clarification, just where did I suggest that be the case?

Okay, are you using the fact that there was any injury at all in determining MC or USC?

Are we still keeping the running redundancy joke alive?

Malicious contact is unsportsmanlike behavior.

How is this redundant? The two are not mutually inclusive.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by topper

How is this redundant? The two are not mutually inclusive.

Correct, but if you're looking at this sitch from a "malicious contact" point of view, either way you slice it, it's USC.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I think it would be a stretch to call MC in a scenario such as this. Depending upon the level of play and the game, it seems more likely to me that the defender is simply rushing to try and make the play.

I saw it twice last evening working men's SP wreck league. Both times it was at HP and both times the catcher tried to make a tag before he had the ball. And both times he was muttering to himself: "catch the ball first, dummy".

That said, I do believe that OBS is the correct call in the OP. I can just envision a young JO player becoming nervous about trying to make such a play and forgetting to get the ball first.

Not everyone that falls down gets hurt, and sometimes people who don't fall down at all get seriously hurt [Dan Marino?].

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

...I can just envision a young JO player becoming nervous about trying to make such a play and forgetting to get the ball first.....

OK, but how does that mean it is not OBS?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

Okay, are you using the fact that there was any injury at all in determining MC or USC?

Yes, just as I would with a fake tag which, by definition, this is.