Ball contacts runner, defense shorthanded

[MrRabbit]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

How silly of you to actually try to apply the rule to the situation...

Yes Mike please tell us what infielder the ball passed ?

[greymule]

I know of no code, baseball or softball, under which the runner would not be out in the OP.

Codes do differ as to the runner being in contact with the bag when hit by the ball, and as to exactly what constitutes the ball's passing of an infielder.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

Yes Mike please tell us what infielder the ball passed ?

I think you are addressing this to the wrong person.

[ctblue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And this is exactly how I would rule. If ASA had meant for us to call the runner safe in this sitch, they would have provided us with a clear exception to the rule. Since they didn't, we can only rule one way: out.

The rule was obviously written with the assumption that the infielders were in their normal positions with a chance to make an out on a ground ball. The rule book can't provide exceptions for every abnormal situation, so I think that common sense should be used. The defensive team was obviously willing to let a ground ball hit to the right side go through to the outfield. As long as R2 did not intentionally contact the ball, I have no call unless F9 or another fielder had a chance to make an out. Sorry DC, I'm not giving you an out when you had no chance to make one.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ctblue

The rule was obviously written with the assumption that the infielders were in their normal positions with a chance to make an out on a ground ball. The rule book can't provide exceptions for every abnormal situation, so I think that common sense should be used. The defensive team was obviously willing to let a ground ball hit to the right side go through to the outfield. As long as R2 did not intentionally contact the ball, I have no call unless F9 or another fielder had a chance to make an out. Sorry DC, I'm not giving you an out when you had no chance to make one.

Another lost protest.

Why not just let the runner kick the ball? After all, if intent is no longer the criteria and you insist that a possible immediate play must be available for INT, then there can be no penalty, right? And as a follow up to that, I guess possible subsequent play on this or any other runners is irrelevant, right?

Or you can just call the rules as directed by the book and avoid all the other BS.

[cloverdale]

why help out the offense or punish the defense....the runner needs to avoid contact with the ball...didnt meet the requirements of passing an infielder...deadball...out

[greymule]

The defense could position everybody except F1 and F2 along the right field line. If the batted ball hits the runner from 2B on his way to 3B, he's out.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by greymule

The defense could position everybody except F1 and F2 along the right field line. If the batted ball hits the runner from 2B on his way to 3B, he's out.

Sounds like deja-vu all over again.

[MrRabbit]

What is the intent of the rule ?

Did the batter / runner interfere with a player having a chance at an out ?

Which player had a chance for an out ?

[greymule]

What is the intent of the rule ?

To direct umpires as to how to call the play when a runner is hit by a fair batted ball.

Did the batter / runner interfere with a player having a chance at an out ?

No. But that's irrelevant unless the ball has already passed an infielder.

Which player had a chance for an out ?

None. But again it's irrelevant.

Think of it this way: on an uncaught third strike, the batter is out if 1B is occupied with less than 2 out. The intent of the rule is to keep F2 from "dropping" strike 3 and getting an easy double play. However, if the runner from 1B is stealing on the pitch, and strike 3 gets past F2 all the way to the backstop, F2 would have no chance at a double play and probably no chance to put either the runner or the batter out. But the batter is still out, even if the uncaught third strike bounces off F2 and goes into the dugout, because that's what the rule says.

This is not some ASA peculiarity. Every code I know of has the same rule, except that the codes differ a bit in what constitutes "passing an infielder."

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

What is the intent of the rule ?

Did the batter / runner interfere with a player having a chance at an out ?

Which player had a chance for an out ?

But this is not a case in which we ask ourselves either of those last two questions. This is a rule that is spelled out clearly for us as written, so we call the play as directed by the rule.

(I like getting an out without having to think too hard about it. )

[MrRabbit]

[QUOTE=SethPDX;619591]But this is not a case in which we ask ourselves either of those last two questions. This is a rule that is spelled out clearly for us as written, so we call the play as directed by the rule.


SethPDX

You do need to address these questions...

You need to look at R/S 44 section B....

While Not in Contact With a Base. A runner who is hit by a fair batted ball while not in contact with a base should be call out or ruled safe, depending on the interference rule.

(Rule 8, section 7 J & K or rule 8, section 8 D-F.


Again I ask who did the batter / Runner interfere with if there was not a player / players there to field the ball ?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

SethPDX

You do need to address these questions...

You need to look at R/S 44 section B....

While Not in Contact With a Base. A runner who is hit by a fair batted ball while not in contact with a base should be call out or ruled safe, depending on the interference rule.

(Rule 8, section 7 J & K or rule 8, section 8 D-F.


Again I ask who did the batter / Runner interfere with if there was not a player / players there to field the ball ?

SethPDX more than adequately answered the issue. I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, but I'll ask if you went back and read those rules? Nowhere does it say that a runner can be safe if they're hit by a fair batted ball that hasn't yet passed an infielder (excluding the pitcher, of course).