A coach who actually understands DP/FLEX!

[Dakota]

The DP can't play defense in extra innings. Neither can the FLEX bat.

[BretMan]

I'm going to have to remember that, for my next extra inning game...

Had a couple of minor DP/FLEX glitches at a tourney today, both caught and corrected right away without further incident.

The first one was when a coach handed me his line-up at the plate and casually mentioned that he was using the "designated hitter". Yep, she was listed right there in the six hole as a "DH"! I confirmed that he meant the "designated player" (DP) and that he realized how the position related to the FLEX (who was properly listed). He seemed to understand all that, but just thought the "batting" player was called the DH.

Second was when a coach told me that his DP would now be playing defense, but didn't mention who she was playing defense for. I mistook that he was saying the DP would be replacing the FLEX. Just to be clear, I mentioned that if the DP replaced the FLEX on defense, then the FLEX was out of the game.

My bad.

Instead of just saying, "No, my DP is playing defense for another player", the guy gets all beligerant and starts ranting that this is a legal move and he's going to get his rule book out and show me I'm wrong!

I kind of put up the stop sign and said, "Whoa, calm down. Your DP can play defense for a player other than the FLEX. No problem." And on we went...

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Second was when a coach told me that his DP would now be playing defense, but didn't mention who she was playing defense for. I mistook that he was saying the DP would be replacing the FLEX. Just to be clear, I mentioned that if the DP replaced the FLEX on defense, then the FLEX was out of the game.

My bad.

Instead of just saying, "No, my DP is playing defense for another player", the guy gets all beligerant and starts ranting that this is a legal move and he's going to get his rule book out and show me I'm wrong!

I kind of put up the stop sign and said, "Whoa, calm down. Your DP can play defense for a player other than the FLEX. No problem." And on we went...

I am hoping by your saying "my bad" in this post you ARE aware that the DP can play defense for the FLEX, and that it is only treated as a substitution.

[BretMan]

Yes, "my bad" for misunderstanding the coach's intention and thinking that he may have meant the DP would be playing defense for the FLEX (meaning a substitution has occured and the FLEX had left the game) instead of the DP playing defense for a different player (a perfectly legal move, but not a substitution).

But I'm not a mindreader. He presented the change to me by just saying, "My DP is going to play defense now"- no mention of who she would be playing defense for. Kind of seemed like a good point to clear up before accepting the change!

All I was doing was trying to clarify which move he was making, to prevent his team from possibly burning a sub they didn't intend to burn or having any line-up issues and the guy blew up about it, apparently thinking that I was denying him an otherwise legal switch.

So much for "preventive umpiring". At least the guy cooled off, we hashed it out, the correct change was made and we got right back to playing softball.

[DaveASA/FED]

That's why I always ask "Ok coach, for who?" everytime they report the DP playing defense. Makes them tell me so I dont' assume anything!! Also I have this stupid notion that if I ask them that enough they will actually start properly reporting the change the first time. I know this is a stupid pipe dream but I keep hoping!!!!!!!

[ronald]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I am hoping by your saying "my bad" in this post you ARE aware that the DP can play defense for the FLEX, and that it is only treated as a substitution.

I had coach tell me that this was not a substitution and he was just going to nine players. In between innings, he tells me that he is the Deputy UIC and that it is, again not a substitution.

I have always thought it was a sub. Am I missing something? or is someone else?

[Dakota]

Technically, it is not a substitution.

ASA definition: SUBSTITUTE: Any member of a team’s roster who is not listed as a starting player, or a player who leaves and re-enters the game.

ASA Rule 4-3-I (in part): The FLEX replacing the DP is not considered a substitution for the FLEX. The DP, who has left the game, can re-enter the game.

A substitution means a player not in the game has entered, replacing a player who was in the game, but has now left the game. When the FLEX bats or the DP plays defense for the FLEX, only the second part of that is fulfilled (at player has left the game); but, no player has entered the game. It creates a re-entry situation for the player removed, but has no effect on the status of the other player.

[ronald]

So technically it is not but it is treated as it is, ie, we mark it on the lineup as if it was?

[Dakota]

Kind of... I mark the exit of FLEX (or DP, depending) next to that player's position in the lineup, and circle the player to mark her re-entry, but nothing regarding the other player.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

So technically it is not but it is treated as it is, ie, we mark it on the lineup as if it was?

It is treated the same as a substitution as it concerns the player who left the game, not for the one who was already and remains in the game.

[jmkupka]

Can you show me where that's stated in the rules? I thought I had this down pat, but if I make this call, I'll need to have seen this in black & white.

I assume this applies to ITB as well?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Can you show me where that's stated in the rules? I thought I had this down pat, but if I make this call, I'll need to have seen this in black & white.

I assume this applies to ITB as well?

Well, the coach was sure HE was correct!

[jmkupka]

oh man, I'm so bad at reading between the lines...

Not to highjack, but we have idiots in coed SP ball who don't understand the EH rule!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Not to highjack, but we have idiots in coed SP ball who don't understand the EH rule!

Friggin' tell me about it...

Then again, I'm lucky if those bozos report their subs to me to begin with. I try, I try, and I try again to get the message across, but it's league play, so...