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Timing of Score - No Tag Up
Runners on 2nd and 3rd base, 1 out. Batter hits fly to outfield which is caught. Runner on 3rd properly tags and scores before runner on 2nd, who forgot to tag, is doubled off at 2nd base.
Does run count? (NSA) |
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timing signal
Worked with some partners lately who signal each other a reminder to watch for a timing play by tapping their wrist (simulating pointing to a watch). This is with runner(s) in scoring position and 2 outs.
Anyone else do this? Is it recommended/required by any org?
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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For example, R1 on 3B and R2 on 2B, one out. Deep fly ball hit to right field towards the 315' fence. F10 makes a great diving catch near the wall, but stumbles a little getting up. Both R1 and R2 make it home. Sitch 1 - R1 left early. Sitch 2 - R2 left early. In sitch 1, whether or not it's a timing play makes no difference. Since R1 is the 3rd out, no trailing runner can score. In sitch 2, it IS a timing play. However, R1 crossed the plate before the appeal, so he scores. "Reminding" other umpires that there could be a timing play has the potential to confuse umpires who should, in my opinion, already be aware of any timing plays. After all, that's a lot of what we do - timing and force plays.
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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Why? Because it is good communication among the umpiring crew just like signaling the IFF is on or off. MTD, Sr.
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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials Ohio High School Athletic Association Toledo, Ohio |
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Darn, you took the words right off the tip of my fingers! |
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With this "potential timing play" signal, let me ask you... What, if anything, would the plate umpire do differently?
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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Why not a signal that you are in the 7th inning so you can make sure you get that run or out? To me, this is extraneous communication because there is a potential timing play every time the number of runners and outs adds up to three. |
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I don't see this as necessarily a bad thing, just an unnecessary thing. I dare say this is "overcommunicating," a concept I am reluctant to acknowledge due to my membership in a group whose latest mantra is "communicate, guys, communicate!"
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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The CCA softball umpires manual (college softball) does have the timing play signal in the section on umpires to umpire signals.
The reasoning: "This alerts all umpires to the possibility of a time play and verifies that all umpires are aware that there are two outs." I remember years ago this signal being taught in ASA umpire clinics (but I have not done ASA softball recently). |
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Partner or me in C always reminds to check for IFF. If Runners on 1st and 2nd advance on WP or PB. I wipe it just to remind my partner. Unnecessary but just making sure.
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TCBLUE13 NFHS, PONY, Babe Ruth, LL, NSA Softball in the Bible "In the big-inning" |
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Sure, every umpire should be aware in every situation, in a perfect world. For us humans, a reminder that there are two outs, and a potential timing play that might be a game breaker; well, I just don't see any more harm than repeating the IFF signal four batters in a row, if the IFF is in effect four batters in a row.
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Steve ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF |
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I agree, we have some lazy-a$$ umpires out there. However, I think that this is an example of overcommunication. Telling someone to do a basic function of their job is, in my opinion, overcommunicating.
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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Have you found it to be helpful in any way? Do most of your umps use the signal consistently?
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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