Injuries

[Tru_in_Blu]

I had a girl's JO league playoff game today. This league allows for all girls present to bat, open substitution on defense.

Today, both teams started shorted handed, allowed by league rules. One team started 9 fielders, the other started 8 fielders.

Two separate injury situations occurred today.

First was a batter swung at a pitch and took the ball off the wrist. Initially, she was going to leave the game. The team was batting 8 at the time and obviously had no substitutes. Coach asked "now what?" I didn't recall anything in their bylaws about this situation, so I told him that he would have to take an out if the girl couldn't return to bat. He wanted the next batter to come up and assume the count, but I said that would constitute batting out of order. The injured girl did return to bat and took a called 3k. If she had not been able to return, would the out be the proper call?

Second situation was the team fielding 9 had a batter take a pitch off the ankle and left the game. Again, no substitutes, so I allowed a courtesy runner [last out made] to replace her on first base. So now the injured player is out of the game. She did not return to her defensive position, so the team went from 9 to 8 [also allowed per bylaws]. During the course of the game, she missed her at-bat(s) w/ no penalty, and did not play defense. In the last inning, one of her teammates had to leave, and the coach asked if she could return to play defense. I initially stated that she could not, but we had a league official-type person there, and he said she could go in on defense. I think this may be a case of the bylaws superceding ASA. Did I have the ASA application correct? I.E. Player could not return after leaving due to injury [which was not blood rule related]?

Thanx...

Ted

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

First was a batter swung at a pitch and took the ball off the wrist. Initially, she was going to leave the game. The team was batting 8 at the time and obviously had no substitutes. Coach asked "now what?" I didn't recall anything in their bylaws about this situation, so I told him that he would have to take an out if the girl couldn't return to bat. He wanted the next batter to come up and assume the count, but I said that would constitute batting out of order. The injured girl did return to bat and took a called 3k. If she had not been able to return, would the out be the proper call?

If there are no local rules addressing this situation, then the association is probably reverting back to ASA rules. If they are already shorthanded, they can't go even more shorthanded. The game, unfortunately, would be a forfeit.

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Second situation was the team fielding 9 had a batter take a pitch off the ankle and left the game. Again, no substitutes, so I allowed a courtesy runner [last out made] to replace her on first base.

Is this a local rule? As far as I know, ASA does not allow this (but I don't call FP, so someone else will need to verify this). The rule as I understand it only pertains to the pitcher and catcher (ASA 8-10-A through F).

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

So now the injured player is out of the game. She did not return to her defensive position, so the team went from 9 to 8 [also allowed per bylaws].

...and by ASA...

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

During the course of the game, she missed her at-bat(s) w/ no penalty, and did not play defense. In the last inning, one of her teammates had to leave, and the coach asked if she could return to play defense. I initially stated that she could not, but we had a league official-type person there, and he said she could go in on defense. I think this may be a case of the bylaws superceding ASA. Did I have the ASA application correct? I.E. Player could not return after leaving due to injury [which was not blood rule related]?

As far as ASA goes, no. If the player leaves the game and no subs are available, the team may continue playing shorthanded. However, once they leave under these circumstances, they may not return to the lineup (4-1-D-f), unless it's for the blood rule (Exception under ASA 4-1).

However, if the person running the league (or someone who is authorized to speak for the league) says it's okay, it's okay. That's their problem, not yours.

[LIUmp]

I am unsure what rules the league was playing under but, FYI:

A team (JO fast pitch) can play with 8, but ASA rule 5-4-J states that if a team is playing one player short and another player becomes ill or injured, leaving the team with two less players than the required number, the game shall be declared a forefeit.

ASA rule 4-1-D refers to the ASA shorthanded rule. JO fast pitch requires 9 to start the game, however, you may start the game with 8. The vacant position must be listed last in the batting order, and an out shall be declared when that spot comes up. ASA rule 4-1-D-2 states that absolutely under no circumstances shall a team be permitted to bat less than 8. (can have one automatic out, but can NOT have 2).

If the player leaving the game is a runner or, in your case, a batter, she shall be declared out. However, more importantly in your case, under ASA rules, if that batter could not continue, since the team was already playing with 8, the game would be over and a forefeit would be declared. So in the first situation, no, it would be a forefeit, not just an out if she could not continue.

In the second case, you should not have allowed a courtesy runner (last batted out) to run for the batter who was HBP. That's an illegal runner.(ASA 4-6-E-3-a). First, courtesy runners are only allowed for the pitcher and catcher and must be a player who has not yet been in the game. Since you didn't have anyone on either side who fits that, due to no substitutes. Plus, if the batter who was HBP was not the pitcher of catcher, then the runner for that player would be a substitute, not a courtesy runner. (CR do not count against the substitution of the pitcher, catcher or CR.) However, in your defense, I know a lot of coaches who try to apply this rule (not sure why). It's not a rule in ASA or PONY, and probably not in most other alphabet leagues.

During the course of the game, you said she missed her turn at bat with no penalty. This is incorrect. An out should have been declared when that player's position in the batting order came up.

ASA 4-1-D-2-e states a player who has left the game can not return to the lineup - when she left the game she became ineligible to return. A return to the lineup will constitute a forefeit if properly protested.

When a team playing with 8 has a player leave, the game is over, and it constitutes a forefeit. The ineligible player can not come back in to play. You are correct that she can not return unless it was due to the blood rule. But you should have asked the league representative what rules they are governed by prior to the start of the game, so you are aware what to call in these situations.

Chalk it up as a learning experience. In the future, I would be sure to ask a league rep prior to my captain/coaches pre-game meeting what rules are governing this league game play. If someone from the league is unavailable, I would "ask" both coaches at the pregame if we were playing ASA rules. If they state yes, then you apply ASA rules during the contest.

* Does this league allow all to bat and open substitutions all the time, or just today because, in today's game this would not become an issue at all?


On edit:
Sorry Dave...it took me forever to type this and when I finished, I saw you had already answered most, if not all, of it.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Thanx for your replies, guys. The league is recreational w/ many bylaws and is otherwise ASA rules. Teams typically "bat the roster". They can continue playing with 7, and need 8 to start and normally play 10 on defense.

The courtesy runner rule is pretty liberal. They allow a CR for whoever the catcher will be next inning if she's on base and there are two outs. CR's allowed when someone gets injured. No D3K; advance only 1 base on wild pitch but not to home. If a pitcher hits 2 batters in one inning or 3 for the game, she can no longer pitch in that game.

The team that ultimately lost the game lost 2 pitchers because they each hit 3 batters. Their 3rd pitcher didn't make it to the game so they had to throw someone who hadn't pitched before. And that made for a long(er) game. Fortunately, they limit runs to 6 per half inning (or on continuation up to 9).

Winning team's SS took a practice grounder bad hop to the mouth and later a ground ball to the shin. Final score was 21-12 and took about 2:20 to play.

On the walk to the parking lot, I ask the league person about the two injury scenarios I posted and he said that he didn't think there was anything specific about those in the bylaws. And I didn't recall anything either. So I think we fudged a bit to allow the game to be played out. They're in the middle of a double-elimination playoff format. The losing team from today's game is done for the season.

Ted

[LIUmp]

Bless you, my man...it's just a bunch of kids having fun with the game.

What age is it? I have umpired (once...and it was painful) 10U and 12U "Williamsport" tournament games and they were like this. I had one game where I had the plate and it was about 100 degrees out...10U ...no run rule, had to play out the game..no time limit. they needed a winner. We went 11 innings, the final score was 34-32. The kids couldn't pitch it over the plate, and there was a rule with pitchers not being able to throw over a certain number of innings or whatever...the poor kids couldn't get it over the plate....and my strike zone was large as it was.

My partner, who was "dying in the heat" (imagine that) old me..."open up the zone more...if the ball makes it to the catcher..call it a strike! he was joking ...sort of.

Game ran 4 hours and 45 minutes. I lost 7 pounds.

I swore I wouldn't do it again. Now I umpire for ASA and PONY and I don't do anything below 12U. (we have plenty of umpires who want those games anyway).

[Tru_in_Blu]

This league is middle school - ages 12 to 14.

Ted