Injuries

[IRISHMAFIA]

Portion lifted from another topic.

Originally posted by Andy

This runner is out for violating the LBR. Don't like it and would expect some heat from the offensive coach, but really don't have any choice. Ball is live, this is not a life-threatening injury, I have no rule basis to kill the play and place this runner on either first or second base.

Maybe in this scenario where you've been given the cause.

However, let's look beyond that. How do you know it's not a life-threatening injury? Even a doctor, nurse, EMT, etc. is not capable of an immediate, long-distance diagnosis.

This is the only problem I have with the rule from the umpire's side. What is to keep a player realizing they may be in trouble if F8 really lets one loose, so s/he just drops and howls as if in pain? Or just goes down silently!

I'm not against getting a player medical attention as soon as possible, but I don't care for the burden of determining what is a minor or serious injury. I can only invision an umpire thinking a player pulled up lame and not stopping the play only to find out that the individual may have had a stroke.

I can hear it now, "that umpire caused this by not calling time." Next thing I know, I'm getting a call from a lawyer. Thank goodness, we are insured, but to be honest, I'm still uncomfortable with the responsibility.

[Mike Walsh]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Portion lifted from another topic.

Maybe in this scenario where you've been given the cause.

However, let's look beyond that. How do you know it's not a life-threatening injury? Even a doctor, nurse, EMT, etc. is not capable of an immediate, long-distance diagnosis.

This is the only problem I have with the rule from the umpire's side. What is to keep a player realizing they may be in trouble if F8 really lets one loose, so s/he just drops and howls as if in pain? Or just goes down silently!

I'm not against getting a player medical attention as soon as possible, but I don't care for the burden of determining what is a minor or serious injury. I can only invision an umpire thinking a player pulled up lame and not stopping the play only to find out that the individual may have had a stroke.

I can hear it now, "that umpire caused this by not calling time." Next thing I know, I'm getting a call from a lawyer. Thank goodness, we are insured, but to be honest, I'm still uncomfortable with the responsibility.

I never thought the rule prohibited the coach from coming out and providing help as soon as he deemed it necessary. They come out without asking for time for any reason they want. Sometimes we hold them up, but usually, we just grant time. So if she drops and the coach is concerned, let him come. If he does, kill it; otherwise, wait until play ceases.

Of course, I'm only talking about when there is doubt. If you see her take a head shot, or have other information where you know the situation is dire, there's no need to wait. And sometimes it's obvious that the situation is not critical. (For example, there was the time I took a shot in the cup. Everyone knew I was hurt; they also knew it wasn't life threatening. OK, I was an umpire and not a player, so it's not a great example, but you get the idea).

Mike

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Portion lifted from another topic.

Maybe in this scenario where you've been given the cause.

However, let's look beyond that. How do you know it's not a life-threatening injury? Even a doctor, nurse, EMT, etc. is not capable of an immediate, long-distance diagnosis.

This is the only problem I have with the rule from the umpire's side. What is to keep a player realizing they may be in trouble if F8 really lets one loose, so s/he just drops and howls as if in pain? Or just goes down silently!

I'm not against getting a player medical attention as soon as possible, but I don't care for the burden of determining what is a minor or serious injury. I can only invision an umpire thinking a player pulled up lame and not stopping the play only to find out that the individual may have had a stroke.

I can hear it now, "that umpire caused this by not calling time." Next thing I know, I'm getting a call from a lawyer. Thank goodness, we are insured, but to be honest, I'm still uncomfortable with the responsibility.

I have some medical back ground and worked as medic for years for PeeWee and Freshman Football - personnally a player going down silently for no cause would be an IMMEDIATE grave concern as opposed to the Shortstop or someone howling in pain because they scraped their knee or whatever. Many many times I trotted 50 yards for a young football player who was writhing on the ground because he jammed his thumb, but then I think of the times I had real serious injuries - unconscious, broken femur, bone popped out of the hand - you just never know til you get there. The "good" injuries are the ones where you tell the kid "hey rub some dirt on it and get back out there", the other ones I hated to see.

I dont kill EVERY play where theres an injury, but I will most, depends on what I see and I'll make a quick judgement with my error leaning towards killing the play. I think the kids come first here, not the game. As a former medic on the field I always find it difficult not to assist, but I know as ump its not my place, so I dont - but the desire to is always there. I have always wondered if I saw something real serious where I could help and saw the proper help was not given, if I could live with myself if I didnt provide that assistance. I just have to hope it never comes up.



[Edited by wadeintothem on Feb 15th, 2006 at 10:32 AM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem

I have some medical back ground and worked as medic for years for PeeWee and Freshman Football - personnally a player going down silently for no cause would be an IMMEDIATE grave concern as opposed to the Shortstop or someone howling in pain because they scraped their knee or whatever. Many many times I trotted 50 yards for a young football player who was writhing on the ground because he jammed his thumb, but then I think of the times I had real serious injuries - unconscious, broken femur, bone popped out of the hand - you just never know til you get there. The "good" injuries are the ones where you tell the kid "hey rub some dirt on it and get back out there", the other ones I hated to see.

I dont kill EVERY play where theres an injury, but I will most, depends on what I see and I'll make a quick judgement with my error leaning towards killing the play. I think the kids come first here, not the game. As a former medic on the field I always find it difficult not to assist, but I know as ump its not my place, so I dont - but the desire to is always there. I have always wondered if I saw something real serious where I could help and saw the proper help was not given, if I could live with myself if I didnt provide that assistance. I just have to hope it never comes up.

Remember, this isn't a JO rule, it applies to all games.

Also, if there was no one available to render intelligent aid, I would think your knowledge would be useful and you would be covered under any Good Samaritan statutes (assuming they exist in your area).

Of course, the problem is we all know there is no law or statute that can ever stop a lawyer and that is a damn shame.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Remember, this isn't a JO rule, it applies to all games.

Also, if there was no one available to render intelligent aid, I would think your knowledge would be useful and you would be covered under any Good Samaritan statutes (assuming they exist in your area).

Of course, the problem is we all know there is no law or statute that can ever stop a lawyer and that is a damn shame.

You would be covered under that most likely .. but its strictly forbidden in my assoc in assist a player in any way. Actually, youre not even supposed to pick up the helmet of the catcher and hand it to them (not that I want to anyway ) lest some distraught father find that to be flirtatious. Not my job now to render aid I suppose - I picked my uniform.. just something I've pondered in the event something went really bad.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem


You would be covered under that most likely .. but its strictly forbidden in my assoc in assist a player in any way. Actually, youre not even supposed to pick up the helmet of the catcher and hand it to them (not that I want to anyway ) lest some distraught father find that to be flirtatious. Not my job now to render aid I suppose - I picked my uniform.. just something I've pondered in the event something went really bad.

With all due respect to your association, we are not talking about handling equipment, help someone with a twisted ankle, etc. I'm referring to an individual who is seriously injured and no one else on site has any sense of medical training.

If you are qualified and/or certified, screw your association. I can see the scene in a court now:

"Member of the jury, Mr. Medic, an individual trained and qualified to render medical aid to the player stood by and watch him/her fall into unconsciousness because he was wearing an umpire uniform!" Ridiculous? Sure, but we are also talking about our legal system.

[WooPigSooie]

Just to clarify on a few of the comments....

I am a softball umpire part-time. I am a licensed ATC (athletic trainer) full time. Just like nurses, doctors, PA's, Nurse Practitioners, etc, when I passed my national boards, it was a legal binding contract stating that in any life or death situation, I MUST stop what I am doing and render aide to the person(s) in need. There is no umpiring association in the world that is going to stop me from providing aid to a possibly critically injured person.

To comment on the 'Good Somaritan' laws that are on the books in most states, if you dont know what you are doing and commit a "tort of ommission' or a "tort of commission", very little is going to save your tail.

For example, collision at home. Base runner complains of neck pain and is groggy. No medical personel is around. The coach has no idea what to do. You think that she is OK and help her to her feet. She collapses and dies 2 minutes later because the collision fractured a vertebrae and after walking on it, a jagged piece of the broken vertebrae severs the spinal cord. <<<<<<< TRUE STORY, BY THE WAY.

You have committed a tort of commission and better get ready for one heck of a lawsuit.

And, a final note to end on, one of my athletic training instructors in college gave a great piece of advice.

"The Good Somaritan Law is like spicy Mexican food. It is great going down, but hurts like hell when it comes out a little later." In a nutshell, the GSL reads good on paper, but when you are in court using that as your only defense, you are screwed.

[Mike Walsh]

[/B][/QUOTE]

You would be covered under that most likely .. but its strictly forbidden in my assoc in assist a player in any way. Actually, you're not even supposed to pick up the helmet of the catcher and hand it to them (not that I want to anyway ) lest some distraught father find that to be flirtatious. Not my job now to render aid I suppose - I picked my uniform.. just something I've pondered in the event something went really bad. [/B][/QUOTE]
What a sad state of affairs this speaks to. It's not age, but conditions like this that sometimes make me feel old. Fortunately, at my age there are some rules I can ignore and get away with.

Mike