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Old Tue May 12, 2009, 08:11pm
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I wasn't at my best yesterday, please help!

After doing this for 4+ years I take pride in trying to do the best job possible when I'm on the diamond.Yesterday I truly didn't know what to do and after looking at the rulebook I'm still unsure if I got it at all even partially right.This was a Junior High game ASA rules. Runners on 3rd and 2nd base no outs.B/R had an 2 and 2 count that I announced before the next pitch.On the next pitch I called Strike 3 and catcher dropped ball.There was no movement by B/R or the catcher. Catcher returns ball to the pitcher when I again said strike 3 on the batter showing 3 fingers and speaking loud enough that my partner in "C" position heard me.The next part of this was sur-real. Pitcher delivers the ball over the plate where the hitter with 3 strikes hits the ball in to the alley in right center and the two base runners crossed the plate.The defensive team had the game well in hand at this point of the game but the coach said there was 3 strikes on the batter and I said yes coach there were but your pitcher pitched the ball back over the plate.I got together with my partner and he stated that it now becomes a batting out of order appeal.I came back to the defensive coach and told her that it was incumbent upon her pitcher and catcher to know what to do in a dropped 3rd strike situation. I have several questions
1)What is the ASA rule for this boondoggle?
2)How do you fix this?
2)How do I correct this in the future without aiding either the offense or defensive side?
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Old Tue May 12, 2009, 08:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN View Post
After doing this for 4+ years I take pride in trying to do the best job possible when I'm on the diamond.Yesterday I truly didn't know what to do and after looking at the rulebook I'm still unsure if I got it at all even partially right.This was a Junior High game ASA rules. Runners on 3rd and 2nd base no outs.B/R had an 2 and 2 count that I announced before the next pitch.On the next pitch I called Strike 3 and catcher dropped ball.There was no movement by B/R or the catcher. Catcher returns ball to the pitcher when I again said strike 3 on the batter showing 3 fingers and speaking loud enough that my partner in "C" position heard me.The next part of this was sur-real. Pitcher delivers the ball over the plate where the hitter with 3 strikes hits the ball in to the alley in right center and the two base runners crossed the plate.The defensive team had the game well in hand at this point of the game but the coach said there was 3 strikes on the batter and I said yes coach there were but your pitcher pitched the ball back over the plate.I got together with my partner and he stated that it now becomes a batting out of order appeal.I came back to the defensive coach and told her that it was incumbent upon her pitcher and catcher to know what to do in a dropped 3rd strike situation. I have several questions
1)What is the ASA rule for this boondoggle?
2)How do you fix this?
2)How do I correct this in the future without aiding either the offense or defensive side?
This is one ofthe strangest things I've ever heard.
First, I can't figure out how you let the batter in the box and the pitcher pitch to her.

But be that as it may, I guess you have BOO, bring runners back, proper batter is out.
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Old Tue May 12, 2009, 08:49pm
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Originally Posted by HugoTafurst View Post
This is one ofthe strangest things I've ever heard.
First, I can't figure out how you let the batter in the box and the pitcher pitch to her.

But be that as it may, I guess you have BOO, bring runners back, proper batter is out.
Like Hugo, I am wondering why F1 was allowed to pitch to the retired batter.

When the retired batter attempted to step back into the batter's box, showing the DO NOT PITCH signal to F1 while telling retired batter she is out on strike three should have sent her to the dugout.

For a BOO there would need to be a proper appeal.
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Old Tue May 12, 2009, 09:04pm
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Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000 View Post
Like Hugo, I am wondering why F1 was allowed to pitch to the retired batter.

When the retired batter attempted to step back into the batter's box, showing the DO NOT PITCH signal to F1 while telling retired batter she is out on strike three should have sent her to the dugout.

For a BOO there would need to be a proper appeal.
How could I declare batter out when the catcher dropped the ball.B/R was still in the box and my hand was up until I showed the 3 fingers to my partner. There was no tag placed on the B/R nor was there a throw to the 1st basemen.I can't tell the defense what they should do,can I otherwise I'm showing favortism to the defensive team aren't I?
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Old Tue May 12, 2009, 10:18pm
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You can't tell them what to do, but you should not at this point be behind the plate. My suggestion? Stand off to the side, continuing to hold up 3 fingers, and say, "Batter, that was strike 3." Which it was. If the defense remains clueless, eventually the batter will either return to the dugout (OUT) or her coaches will get a clue and send her to 1st base.
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Old Tue May 12, 2009, 11:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
You can't tell them what to do, but you should not at this point be behind the plate. My suggestion? Stand off to the side, continuing to hold up 3 fingers, and say, "Batter, that was strike 3." Which it was. If the defense remains clueless, eventually the batter will either return to the dugout (OUT) or her coaches will get a clue and send her to 1st base.
And if no one has a clue still and the pitcher has the ball and attempts to throw underhand to the catcher (this is not a pitch), when the BR intentionally interferes with that throw (by hitting it to right field), call a dead ball and rule the BR out.
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Last edited by youngump; Mon Sep 19, 2011 at 06:57pm.
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Old Wed May 13, 2009, 12:02am
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Dont try to figure out how to deal with this issue; the only thing you need to know is to prevent this next time. Hold time if you have to, but that batters out. Other than that, its a no pitch IMO - not a BOO. I think you bear the brunt of the responsibility here.
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Old Wed May 13, 2009, 12:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000
When the retired batter attempted to step back into the batter's box, showing the DO NOT PITCH signal to F1 while telling retired batter she is out on strike three should have sent her to the dugout.

My mistake saying batter is out on strike three.

When the batter tried stepping back into the batter's box, had the PU movrd away from the plate area and declared it was the third strike again might have clued the players on their next course of action.
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Old Wed May 13, 2009, 08:27am
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Thanks for your answers. I've had numerous dropped 3 strikes where the B/R or pitcher "froze" but eventually did what they needed to do. After this debacle I'll step away to the side and let them figure it out.
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Old Wed May 13, 2009, 08:37am
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Okay...for what it is worth, here is my take on this.

You should have never allowed the pitch to the batter who had three strikes, period. That part should have never happened. You could stand there the rest of the day, if necessary, and kept repeating to the coaches and the batter "that was strike three." Sooner or later, somebody (as has already been stated) would have figured it out. The the batter would have run or returned to her dugout, with the outcomes being the ones the Tom has already stated.

Once you allowed the batter who had struck out to be pitched to, you placed the offensive team in jeopardy of a BOO. Once again, you cannot do this. An umpire cannot place a team in jeopardy of being penalized either by his action or inaction, as in your case. You also put the defensive team in the untenable position of giving up runs they would have otherwise (maybe) not given up. You can't do that either. The only choice you had at that point, IMO, is calling the batter out and returning all runners to the base they occupied at the time of the pitch (2 and 3). You would now have one out. New batter. You will probably receive a bunch of flak, but because your inaction created the mess to begin with, you should happily take it and use it as a learning moment.
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Old Wed May 13, 2009, 08:50am
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Okay this is just another idea. Since it could not be a pitch, it was a throw to F2 to attempt to retire the batter. The batter intentionally interfered with the defense, therefore the batter is out for strike three, and the runner closest to home is out for the interference. Two outs to harsh? okay the runner at third is out on the interference and the batter is awarded first. The key thing here is it is NOT a pitch but interference by the batter.
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Old Wed May 13, 2009, 10:36am
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Originally Posted by BuggBob View Post
Okay this is just another idea. Since it could not be a pitch, it was a throw to F2 to attempt to retire the batter. The batter intentionally interfered with the defense, therefore the batter is out for strike three, and the runner closest to home is out for the interference. Two outs to harsh? okay the runner at third is out on the interference and the batter is awarded first. The key thing here is it is NOT a pitch but interference by the batter.
Two thoughts. One this isn't another idea because I posted it above.

Second, it's not interference by a batter. It's interference by a batter runner. When strike three was dropped the B became BR. The B was not until committing interference. The only way you can get two here is if the runner from third was coming home and you can call it double play interference.
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Last edited by youngump; Mon Sep 19, 2011 at 06:58pm.
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Old Wed May 13, 2009, 12:53pm
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Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN View Post
How could I declare batter out when the catcher dropped the ball.B/R was still in the box and my hand was up until I showed the 3 fingers to my partner. There was no tag placed on the B/R nor was there a throw to the 1st basemen.I can't tell the defense what they should do,can I otherwise I'm showing favortism to the defensive team aren't I?

"NO PITCH, NO PITCH"

Then the ball is dead and the batter/runner is out.
You are allowed to use common sense.
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Old Wed May 13, 2009, 12:57pm
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Originally Posted by HugoTafurst View Post
...
You are allowed to use common sense.
Rule cite, please?
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Old Wed May 13, 2009, 02:55pm
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Several years ago doing a ASA 12u B tournament had a batter strike out swing. I gave a strike signal and said strike thee loud enough for the catcher and hitter to hear. I stepped back cleared my indicator, next batter stepped in the batter's box hit the next pitch and made it safe on first base.

D coach came up and said the runner on first was the one that you just called out. I looked at his score book, checked my line up card sure enough it was the same batter. I had BOO.

O coach was very upset and wanted to call the UIC over. UIC came and I told both of them I gave the strike signal and told the catcher and batter that was strike three. It was not my responsibly to make sure the correct batter was coming to bat. I'm here to umpire not to coach. UIC agreed, BOO play on.

Even at lower level rec ball I will tell the batter several times strike three but at what point is it the coaches responsibly and not yours.
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