Call at First

[robbie]

[QUOTE=vcblue;598879]
However, if it was my judgment that she was rounding first to go to second I would not protect her to second due to the earlier obstruction. I would rule her out and get ready to explain to the OC that the obstruction happened before first, and she was protected to first. And, in my judgment she would not have reached second therefore she is out.

In the above post she cannot be out. If the obstruction happens prior to BR reaching first, the play is dead and obstruction awards are made. Subsequent out cannot take place.

[vcblue]

[QUOTE=robbie;599004]

Originally Posted by vcblue

However, if it was my judgment that she was rounding first to go to second I would not protect her to second due to the earlier obstruction. I would rule her out and get ready to explain to the OC that the obstruction happened before first, and she was protected to first. And, in my judgment she would not have reached second therefore she is out.

In the above post she cannot be out. If the obstruction happens prior to BR reaching first, the play is dead and obstruction awards are made. Subsequent out cannot take place.

What are you talking about??? (in bold) The OBS happened before first base and she is protected to first. Now if my "what-if" scenario she decides to continue on to second and is tag out, and in my judgment she would not have made second, she's out.

You don't protect a runner to the next base because she made a bad running decision. You protect her to the next base because you thought she would have made it had there been no OBS.

[bkbjones]

[QUOTE=vcblue;599033]

Originally Posted by robbie

What are you talking about??? (in bold) The OBS happened before first base and she is protected to first. Now if my "what-if" scenario she decides to continue on to second and is tag out, and in my judgment she would not have made second, she's out.

You don't protect a runner to the next base because she made a bad running decision. You protect her to the next base because you thought she would have made it had there been no OBS.

Depends on where I rule she was obstructed. If the obstruction occurred AT first base, can you really call her out between first and second?

Just rule she tripped because of the obstruction, kill the play when she is tagged, put her at first base and everyone quit making giant circumlocular arguments.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Depends on where I rule she was obstructed. If the obstruction occurred AT first base, can you really call her out between first and second?

Just rule she tripped because of the obstruction, kill the play when she is tagged, put her at first base and everyone quit making giant circumlocular arguments.

Exactly. Obstruction is rarely an instantaneous moment in time or space; an obstructed runner is still obstructed until no longer impeded, and has regained any affect or result of attempting avoid the obstruction. In this case, as described, the BR was obstructed, and lost her balance as a result of the obstruction. It is, in my opinion, blatently wrong to even consider calling her out when the entire situation is clearly the result of the obstruction. What would it take to correct the result of this obstruction? Why, to NOT call her out.

This BR did exactly what the rulesmakers wish; instead of running over the obstructing F3, she made the effort to avoid the collision. In doing so, she lost her balance/footing/whatever, and tripped over the bag. She could have possibly fallen, then, in 4 directions; and it strikes me that some are arguing she is in jeopardy because of the direction in which she fell, when 3 of the 4 are clearly protected in ANY circumstance?

If you (not addressed to vcblue, the generic "you") can't figure out how she is protected on this play, you might want to reconsider why you are out there.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

She could have possibly fallen, then, in 4 directions; and it strikes me that some are arguing she is in jeopardy because of the direction in which she fell, when 3 of the 4 are clearly protected in ANY circumstance?

If you (not addressed to vcblue, the generic "you") can't figure out how she is protected on this play, you might want to reconsider why you are out there.

Actually Steve.. I'm not so sure that all are protecting this runner no matter what way she fell... which is unfortunate.

Some based on the theory that she was obstructed before 1b
Some based on the theory falling over first is not over running it

[AtlUmpSteve]

Well, let's think about that. If obstructed before the base, and falls back toward home, then cannot be out by OBS rule. If falls forward toward right field, that HAS to be considered overrunning the base. If falls to the right, then (this may be the fallacy in my assumption about 3 sides), then SHOULD NOT be in jeopardy, since "turned" to the right.

So, the only side remaining is fell to the left.

[Badamk]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

If you (not addressed to vcblue, the generic "you") can't figure out how she is protected on this play, you might want to reconsider why you are out there.

You know who needs to reconsider being on the field? Guys like you who think they are the ultimate judge and better than everyone else. I dealt with umps like you when I was a coach. Never wanted to explain a thing because you feel like everyone should be as "smart" as you. It is a forum for helping people; not a place for you to get your therapy.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Badamk

You know who needs to reconsider being on the field? Guys like you who think they are the ultimate judge and better than everyone else. I dealt with umps like you when I was a coach. Never wanted to explain a thing because you feel like everyone should be as "smart" as you. It is a forum for helping people; not a place for you to get your therapy.

Stated in response to me explaining absolutely every pertinent point of the obstruction rule, and how it clearly applies. If you think my responses aren't appropriate, boy, just hang around this forum some more.

[Badamk]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Stated in response to me explaining absolutely every pertinent point of the obstruction rule, and how it clearly applies. If you think my responses aren't appropriate, boy, just hang around this forum some more.

You know because of comments like this and umps like you, i'm done asking questions on this board. Don't forget you are out there to help KIDS compete and enjoy a GAME. That's it. You aren't there to show off how much you think you know or flex your self-appointed power.

So 'old man' take a deep breath and remember to use all those hours buried in a rule book for something good. New umpires come on here to understand the rules better and get some help. Maybe you can turn off the ego and actually help people.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Badamk

You know who needs to reconsider being on the field? Guys like you who think they are the ultimate judge and better than everyone else. I dealt with umps like you when I was a coach. Never wanted to explain a thing because you feel like everyone should be as "smart" as you. It is a forum for helping people; not a place for you to get your therapy.

Man, you are definitely barking up the wrong tree. I haven't been on this board for very long but I've always seen Steve as one of the most informed and helpful guys here. I have a lot of respect for him. Now, not so much for you.

And I'm sure a lot of umps had to deal with a coach like you. Take a pill.

Ted

[robbie]

Originally Posted by vcblue
However, if it was my judgment that she was rounding first to go to second I would not protect her to second due to the earlier obstruction. I would rule her out and get ready to explain to the OC that the obstruction happened before first, and she was protected to first. And, in my judgment she would not have reached second therefore she is out.

In the above post she cannot be out. If the obstruction happens prior to BR reaching first, the play is dead and obstruction awards are made. Subsequent out cannot take place.

What are you talking about??? (in bold) The OBS happened before first base and she is protected to first. Now if my "what-if" scenario she decides to continue on to second and is tag out, and in my judgment she would not have made second, she's out.

Pretty simple - well that is if other rule sets are the same.

In NSA, "The ball is dead and not in play p. When a play is being made on an obstructed runner, or if the batter-runner is obstructed before he/she reaches first base."

In your example you said no protection past first because obstruction was before first. If so the play is dead.

Is this unique to NSA??

PS: I do not know how to show quotes from previous posts in blue like many of you do. Sorry - it would make it easier to read, but.......

[vcblue]

Must be unique to NSA. ASA you are protect between the base where the OBS occurred. The ball is not dead until the runner is put out. The you kill it and award the proper base. However, in your judgment, if the runner attempts another base, and is tagged out before reaching that base you can award her that base. Otherwise she is out.