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Old Sat Apr 25, 2009, 07:58pm
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ASA 3-ump - Walk the line?

ASA mechanics 3-ump system. When do base umpires walk the line? I've been given conflicting info from very good umpires:

a. Never with ANY runners on base (so 3U would NOT walk the line with a runner on 2nd, and 1U would NOT walk the line with runner on 3rd) OR

b. Only when there's not a runner at your base (so 3U WOULD walk the line with a runner on 2nd and U1 WOULD walk the line with a runner on 3rd only)

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old Sat Apr 25, 2009, 08:45pm
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Cant say if this matches ASA exactly, but just got back from the NFHS 3 man clinic this afternoon. According to the class, you only walk the line with no runners on. Anytime a runner or runners on base both umpires go to set position.
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Old Sat Apr 25, 2009, 08:53pm
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You would NOT walk as U3 with a runner on second; while you aren't responsible for a runner on your base, you have one coming to you, so you set. With 1st and 2nd, you also have runner leaving early responsibility at 1st; another reason to set.

Unless it has changed recently, it has been considered optional for U1 to walk or to set with a single runner at 3rd. That is the ONLY time you would possibly walk except for bases empty. It is my observation that, the option stated aside, that most UIC's prefer that both base umpires set in that case, and every other (as required) where there are any baserunners; and that both base umpires walk with bases empty.
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Old Sun Apr 26, 2009, 08:55am
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
You would NOT walk as U3 with a runner on second; while you aren't responsible for a runner on your base, you have one coming to you, so you set. With 1st and 2nd, you also have runner leaving early responsibility at 1st; another reason to set.

Unless it has changed recently, it has been considered optional for U1 to walk or to set with a single runner at 3rd. That is the ONLY time you would possibly walk except for bases empty. It is my observation that, the option stated aside, that most UIC's prefer that both base umpires set in that case, and every other (as required) where there are any baserunners; and that both base umpires walk with bases empty.
Not that I legislate any rules, but I think it would be more consistent that both base umpires do the same thing on the field. So w/ bases empty, walk; w/ any runner(s), set. Having one walking and one setting might look a bit odd to an observer.

Ted
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Old Sun Apr 26, 2009, 09:55am
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Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
Not that I legislate any rules, but I think it would be more consistent that both base umpires do the same thing on the field. So w/ bases empty, walk; w/ any runner(s), set. Having one walking and one setting might look a bit odd to an observer.

Ted
Why would anyone, including the observer, care?

The purpose of walking the line is keep the umpire on their toes, so to speak, and to enable him/her to be in fluent, ready position to react and move to where they need to be.

Until nominated as an Olympic event, I think we should avoid Synchronized Umpiring as a game plan at all costs. We got away from it about two decades ago and I think we should stay as far away as possible. Umpires have more important tasks than to worry about mirroring their partners.
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Old Sun Apr 26, 2009, 12:47pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Why would anyone, including the observer, care?

The purpose of walking the line is keep the umpire on their toes, so to speak, and to enable him/her to be in fluent, ready position to react and move to where they need to be.

Until nominated as an Olympic event, I think we should avoid Synchronized Umpiring as a game plan at all costs. We got away from it about two decades ago and I think we should stay as far away as possible. Umpires have more important tasks than to worry about mirroring their partners.
'Cuz the observer might consider such un-synchronized activities to be capricious, random movements by a team of highly untrained mercenaries?

I can go either way, but if forced to watch something, I'd opt for the synchronized umpiring over somebody's kids playing herd-ball soccer.
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Old Sun Apr 26, 2009, 01:27pm
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Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
'Cuz the observer might consider such un-synchronized activities to be capricious, random movements by a team of highly untrained mercenaries?
Then that observer isn't qualified or so over-officious I wouldn't want to work for them.

Quote:
I can go either way, but if forced to watch something, I'd opt for the synchronized umpiring over somebody's kids playing herd-ball soccer.
Damn, pinko commies!!!

Do you not remember when the BU and the PU would syncronize their break away from the pitcher's and home plate, respectively, after cleaning between innings?

There are still people out there at nationals telling BU they MUST mirror the PU whenever they kill the ball. If there is an active runner or defender still playing the ball in the BU's area, I can understand the BU assisting in the call, but that is it.

In my experience, that mechanic (more obvious in SP) disappeared about 10 years ago.
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Old Sun Apr 26, 2009, 10:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
Not that I legislate any rules, but I think it would be more consistent that both base umpires do the same thing on the field. So w/ bases empty, walk; w/ any runner(s), set. Having one walking and one setting might look a bit odd to an observer.

Ted
Sorry for my long silence, but I'm uh... on another continent right now. Specifically, South America, and more specifically, in Argentina. Yes, really. LOVE IT!

Personally, I don't like "walking the line." I just don't think it serves much purpose. If you need something prescribed to you like that to keep yourself in the game, then you need to rethink your umpiring goals.

However, with respect to the suggestion that it may look "odd" for one umpire to walk the line and another to not walk the line, I simply shrug my shoulders, as most spectators are never really watching the umpires anyway... except other umpires.

Okay, back to some awesome churrascos and empanadas. I think I've had beer with almost every meal since I got here. Pictures will follow on my personal website and on facebook.
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I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

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Old Sun Apr 26, 2009, 11:05pm
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Originally Posted by NCASAUmp View Post

Personally, I don't like "walking the line." I just don't think it serves much purpose. If you need something prescribed to you like that to keep yourself in the game, then you need to rethink your umpiring goals.
Well, that is not the point of the mechanic. Then again, I don't see why anyone would have an issue with an umpire taking A STEP, two at the most. It WILL keep you on your toes, allow you to avoid being hit and allow you to move into position in a quicker and more efficient manner. But if that doesn't interest the umpire, just stand there
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Old Mon Apr 27, 2009, 07:47am
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I agree with Steve as to the best way to do it - and Mike on the mirroring. Mirroring is a terrible mechanic that I'm glad is gone. It leads to errors and extra calls by a bu who should not be making those calls. One example of a bad thing I've had happen because my partner was mirroring, was I had a batter out of the box when hit the ball and called dead ball, my partner mirroring me called foul ball so he could be my helper and send the runner back - so mirror and coaching all in one bad call. So when I called the batter out, I had to answer for why I said out and he said foul. This was a 18G coach with a national championship under his belt and he knows what he is doing and it was not fun. You just do your job out there, and mirroring is not your job and it is not a listed mechanic. If you stay quiet and dont make calls that arent yours, you cant get us in trouble.
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Old Mon Apr 27, 2009, 08:20am
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Well, that is not the point of the mechanic. Then again, I don't see why anyone would have an issue with an umpire taking A STEP, two at the most. It WILL keep you on your toes, allow you to avoid being hit and allow you to move into position in a quicker and more efficient manner. But if that doesn't interest the umpire, just stand there
Then why, in a 2-umpire system, does the BU stay stationary until the ball is hit? You're not really that much further out than if you were in a 3-umpire crew (maybe a couple of feet - unless you're calling SP and getting pushed halfway to the fence).

For me it's simple: I don't want to be moving just for the sake of being moving. If I'm going somewhere, I want it to be for a purpose. Maybe it's because I'm younger than the average umpire that I don't find it difficult to get the ol' turfslappers moving, but I just don't see walking as being all that necessary. Even when I'm "stationary" as the BU, I can do little things to keep my feet at the ready (wiggling toes, flexing the calf or thigh muscles, etc.). I'm moving as soon as I know where I need to be, and in less than a second after the ball is hit (usually a split second). All the while, I'm stationary to see everything I need to see as clearly as I can.
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I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.
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Old Mon Apr 27, 2009, 09:03am
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Originally Posted by NCASAUmp View Post
Then why, in a 2-umpire system, does the BU stay stationary until the ball is hit? ...
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Old Mon Apr 27, 2009, 09:03am
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Originally Posted by NCASAUmp View Post
Then why, in a 2-umpire system, does the BU stay stationary until the ball is hit? You're not really that much further out than if you were in a 3-umpire crew (maybe a couple of feet - unless you're calling SP and getting pushed halfway to the fence).
What makes you think this is only for 3-umpire mechanics?

Quote:
For me it's simple: I don't want to be moving just for the sake of being moving. If I'm going somewhere, I want it to be for a purpose.
That is why the umpire is on the outside foot because that is your push-off foot when you need to go somewhere.

Quote:
Maybe it's because I'm younger than the average umpire that I don't find it difficult to get the ol' turfslappers moving, but I just don't see walking as being all that necessary.
Irrelevant. The mechanic was dropped a few years ago and brought back because umpires felt more comfortable and mobile taking that step as opposed to standing still in a set position.

Quote:
Even when I'm "stationary" as the BU, I can do little things to keep my feet at the ready (wiggling toes, flexing the calf or thigh muscles, etc.). I'm moving as soon as I know where I need to be, and in less than a second after the ball is hit (usually a split second). All the while, I'm stationary to see everything I need to see as clearly as I can.
And I'm seeing everything I need to see and am moving WHEN the ball is hit. That means I have more time to get to where I need to be, set and see the most important thing, the play.

Personally, I believe you are overthinking this mechanic and wonder if you were ever taught it properly.
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Old Mon Apr 27, 2009, 11:12am
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I know the OP stated ASA, but I tend to default to the CCA manual on this - pgs 155 - 158.
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Old Mon Apr 27, 2009, 11:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
I believe Dave is a predominantly a slow pitch umpire, thus starting in 'B'. I think the discussion is centering on fast pitch umpiring, where the BU's start on the line.
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