Touching bases in legal order

[UmpireErnie]

In NFHS (High School) play, once a runner has advanced to the next base beyond the base missed or the base left-too-soon, she may not return if the ball becomes dead. See NFHS 2-1-6a. Once the ball goes out of play and the umpire declares a dead ball R1 is basically done. A dead ball appeal would be honored and R1 would be ruled out.

ASA seems a bit dicier. ASA 8-5G (2) on page 88 says that a runner cannot return once she has touched the first awarded base beyond the base missed or left-too-soon, but also says that runners must be given the opportunity to finish their base running duties prior to an award. As I read the ASA Rules Supplement on page 107 when the ball goes out of play the umpire should call a dead ball and wait to see if the runner is going to go back and touch the missed base or tag up at the base left-too-soon. If the runner does return then at that point you administer the awarded bases. Now if the defense wishes to make an appeal they may but it is too late since the runner did touch the base prior to the appeal. If the runner does not attempt to return, then make the award of the bases for the ball going out of play. Once the umpire verbally makes the award, and the runner has touched the next base beyond the base missed or left-too-soon, she may not return. The defense may appeal and the runner be ruled out.

While the umpire calling the dead ball may not have seen the missed base, his partner may have so it would seem that in ASA on any ball out of play the unpire should hesitate after declaring a dead ball and wait to see if the runner(s) are going to do any more base running.

I can’t find anything in print about the situation where R1 passes the BR who is on 3B after the ball goes out of play and R1 is going back to touch the missed 2B. The BR having to retreat to 2B so R1 can follow her and touch 2B makes sense, I guess in effect because her teammate missed 2B and still has “base running duties to perform” then the BR also still has “base running duties to perform” and could also retreat to 2B even though she had not herself missed a base or left-too-soon. Following all of that running around, the award would be made based on the runners location at the time of the throw not where they ended up after all this extra curricular activity.

But if R1 returns to 2B and passes the BR who does not backtrack ahead of R1 well then I just don’t know. ASA 8-7-D deals with passing another runner but says “the ball remains alive” so this appears to be only talking about passing another runner during a live ball and while running the bases in normal i.e. forward order. Still it does not seem as if R1s return to 2B is proper if she passes the BR at 3B to do it.

If I was on a field tonight and it happened I think I would honor an appeal on R1 since she did not properly go back to the missed based unless the BR went back ahead of her. And I think I would be very convincing about it and sound as if I knew what I was doing. But in effect it would be a “Rule 10” decision. So I am willing to be talked out of it by my peers. What do you think?

NFHS has this one tied up in a bow. College guys.. what does NCAA say?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

ASA seems a bit dicier. ASA 8-5G (2) on page 88 says that a runner cannot return once she has touched the first awarded base beyond the base missed or left-too-soon,.... Once the umpire verbally makes the award, and the runner has touched the next base beyond the base missed or left-too-soon, she may not return. The defense may appeal and the runner be ruled out.

Actually, it does not say that. It states that the runner may not return to touch a base left too soon or a missed base once the runner has advanced to the "next awarded base." There is a difference.

I can’t find anything in print about the situation where R1 passes the BR who is on 3B after the ball goes out of play and R1 is going back to touch the missed 2B. The BR having to retreat to 2B so R1 can follow her and touch 2B makes sense, I guess in effect because her teammate missed 2B and still has “base running duties to perform” then the BR also still has “base running duties to perform” and could also retreat to 2B even though she had not herself missed a base or left-too-soon. Following all of that running around, the award would be made based on the runners location at the time of the throw not where they ended up after all this extra curricular activity.

But if R1 returns to 2B and passes the BR who does not backtrack ahead of R1 well then I just don’t know. ASA 8-7-D deals with passing another runner but says “the ball remains alive” so this appears to be only talking about passing another runner during a live ball and while running the bases in normal i.e. forward order. Still it does not seem as if R1s return to 2B is proper if she passes the BR at 3B to do it.

Talking about making something dicier

There is something in writing and you already cited it. As noted, "the ball remains live" or "the ball is live" simply tells the umpire and teams that this call does not cause a dead ball.

Personally, I like it this way as it keeps all runners and action in proper order and perspective. The rule is always applicable in the same manner, not one ruling for a dead ball and one for a live ball.

[RKBUmp]

Im not so sure your citing of the NFHS rule completely ties this up under FED rules. Your citation of rules says they may not return to touch a missed base or one left too soon on a "caught fly ball if"

As I recall in the original post, the batter hit a triple with the ball going out of play on a throw to the plate. This play had nothing to do with a caught fly ball.

[ronald]

It states that the runner may not return to touch a base left too soon or a missed base once the runner has advanced to the "next awarded base."

So if batter runner misses first base, between 1b and 2b when ball leaves fielder's fingers and on 2b when it goes out of play, what is the ruling? Has he already advanced to the next awarded base (he/she will be awarded 3b and is on the next awarded base. That is what I understand at this point) or can he go back and retouch?

In Federation he/she is SOL.

Thanks.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

It states that the runner may not return to touch a base left too soon or a missed base once the runner has advanced to the "next awarded base."

So if batter runner misses first base, between 1b and 2b when ball leaves fielder's fingers and on 2b when it goes out of play, what is the ruling? Has he already advanced to the next awarded base (he/she will be awarded 3b and is on the next awarded base. That is what I understand at this point) or can he go back and retouch?

In Federation he/she is SOL.

Thanks.

That is why we are told to hesitate and observe the runner's reactions prior to announcing "awarded bases", but I understand your question which is one of the reasons I posted the proper wording even though the difference as it pertains to the actual rule and mechanic is the semantics.