Touching in reverse order...

[TussAgee11]

1 out, R1. Fly ball to RF caught. R1 has rounded 2nd and headed to third. Upon seeing the catch, he turns and runs directly back to 1st base across the cutout.

Obviously, we have a problem. The defense threw the ball to 2nd base and I signaled out. Offensive coach said that the only base they could touch to get him out was first, I replied they can touch any base previous to where the runner was at that time (i.e. if the ball beat him to 2nd, if he was running correctly in reverse, he's still be out).

But this can't be, because if we have multiple runners, then 2 outs could be recorded at the same base.

So, should I have waited for proper appeal on this, even though it was obvious to all that he never retouched 2nd?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

1 out, R1. Fly ball to RF caught. R1 has rounded 2nd and headed to third. Upon seeing the catch, he turns and runs directly back to 1st base across the cutout.

Obviously, we have a problem. The defense threw the ball to 2nd base and I signaled out. Offensive coach said that the only base they could touch to get him out was first, I replied they can touch any base previous to where the runner was at that time (i.e. if the ball beat him to 2nd, if he was running correctly in reverse, he's still be out).

But this can't be, because if we have multiple runners, then 2 outs could be recorded at the same base.

So, should I have waited for proper appeal on this, even though it was obvious to all that he never retouched 2nd?

You were right - they were wrong (no surprise)

7.10
Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --
(b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.


Your runner missed a base. They tagged the base. They either told you or it was obvious. He's out.

Why couldn't you have multiple outs at the same base? They just need separate appeals.

Suppose you had R1 and R2 on your fly ball. R1 misses the re-touch and R2 doesn't re-tag. You can appeal both runners at second base.

You can appeal each runner at each base. You are not limited to one appeal at a given base.

[greymule]

Offensive coach said that the only base they could touch to get him out was first

That's true for leaving 1B too soon, not for the miss at 2B.

I replied they can touch any base previous to where the runner was at that time (i.e. if the ball beat him to 2nd, if he was running correctly in reverse, he's still be out).

The appeal of leaving too soon must be at 1B, regardless of where the runner is. But even the MLB umps blew that one a few years ago, and (because the returning running was between 2B and 3B) allowed an appeal at 2B for leaving 1B too soon.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by greymule

Offensive coach said that the only base they could touch to get him out was first

That's true for leaving 1B too soon, not for the miss at 2B.

I replied they can touch any base previous to where the runner was at that time (i.e. if the ball beat him to 2nd, if he was running correctly in reverse, he's still be out).

The appeal of leaving too soon must be at 1B, regardless of where the runner is. But even the MLB umps blew that one a few years ago, and (because the returning running was between 2B and 3B) allowed an appeal at 2B for leaving 1B too soon.

Right Bob, I missed that part.

7.10
Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --
(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged;

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I replied they can touch any base previous to where the runner was at that time (i.e. if the ball beat him to 2nd, if he was running correctly in reverse, he's still be out).

This part of your statement is incorrect. If R1 hasn't "missed" second, then he can't be appealed at second. If he missed it on his last time by, then he can be appealed at that base.

(In your play, R1 committed two baserunning errors. Although he can only be out once, teh defense can appeal either mistake).

[TussAgee11]

Perhaps I should be more clear.

The defense never appealed anything. They simply threw the ball to second base.

Was that conveyed in my OP and understood in your responses? Or does this change anything (obviously it changes the OP but what about your responses)

[TussAgee11]

Sorry...

I just reread Rich's post, and see that my situation was addressed.

5 games today, long day to say the least. Head has stopped working.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Perhaps I should be more clear.

The defense never appealed anything. They simply threw the ball to second base.

Was that conveyed in my OP and understood in your responses? Or does this change anything (obviously it changes the OP but what about your responses)

If the defense never appealed anything then you should not have called an out.

An appeal doesn't have to be verbal. The actions themselves can be an obvious appeal. Example: R3. Fly ball caught and R3 advances to home. Defense throws to 3B. F5 tags 3B. Most would take that as an obvious appeal.

[TussAgee11]

I think my termonology is tripping us up.

When I said appeal, I meant pitcher getting the ball, stepping off, throwing to 2nd.

I understand words have meanings; perhaps I don't have the correct vocabulary for my situation.

It sounds like you would say the original sitch would be an "obvious appeal". LF catching, throwing the ball in, SS catching, told to touch second, and touches the base with R1 on first.

Correct?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I think my termonology is tripping us up.

When I said appeal, I meant pitcher getting the ball, stepping off, throwing to 2nd.

I understand words have meanings; perhaps I don't have the correct vocabulary for my situation.

It sounds like you would say the original sitch would be an "obvious appeal". LF catching, throwing the ball in, SS catching, told to touch second, and touches the base with R1 on first.

Correct?

As described, it would seem like an obvious appeal.

The ball doesn't have to go to the pitcher first for an appeal unless the ball was dead. Even then, it only goes there to make the ball live. If it remains live it can just go to the base.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I think my termonology is tripping us up.

When I said appeal, I meant pitcher getting the ball, stepping off, throwing to 2nd.

I understand words have meanings; perhaps I don't have the correct vocabulary for my situation.

It sounds like you would say the original sitch would be an "obvious appeal". LF catching, throwing the ball in, SS catching, told to touch second, and touches the base with R1 on first.

Correct?

A common misconception is that there is something magical about the pitcher stepping off as part of an appeal. This is only necessary if the ball is dead and the ball then only comes to the pitcher so he can engage and the PU can make it a live ball.

The pitcher is not required to step off, either.

[JR12]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

A common misconception is that there is something magical about the pitcher stepping off as part of an appeal. This is only necessary if the ball is dead and the ball then only comes to the pitcher so he can engage and the PU can make it a live ball.

The pitcher is not required to step off, either.

He is usally taught to step off, so he doesn't balk. Then the def. would lose the appeal.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JR12

He is usally taught to step off, so he doesn't balk. Then the def. would lose the appeal.

It's not a balk to step to and throw to a base from the rubber for purposes of making an appeal.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JR12

He is usally taught to step off, so he doesn't balk. Then the def. would lose the appeal.

Bob said something similar:

He is taught this by people that don't understand that you don't need to step off to make a throw for the purposes of making an appeal.

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Bob said something similar:

He is taught this by people that don't understand that you don't need to step off to make a throw for the purposes of making an appeal.

So after they go through with this dance step to make an appeal, do you explain to the coach how to make a proper appeal or do you let this stuff continue?