Illegal pitch NFHS

[BuggBob]

I got some e-mails from some of my guys last night. I was not there so I can only go by what they said in there E-mails (So no flaming wade). Both of these are NFHS games and rules.

The pitcher has pitched the ball and the batter swings and misses then it gets by the catcher and goes to the backstop. All runners advanced a base on the passed ball (catcher error). Then the base umpire informs everyone that he had an illegal pitch. The ruling made was that the runners stay where they are (a runner had scored from third as well) and we have a ball on the batter. Correct?I guess what I am asking is when an illegal pitch is called in high school does the coach of the offensive team always have the choice of taking the result of the play (even if the ball wasn't hit by the batter) or the illegal pitch?I cannot find anything in the rule book (2008) that covers this.

In this first case I directed the umpire to the dead ball table in the rule book.

The pitcher is legally on the pitching plate and has the ball in her pitching hand. As she looks into the catcher for a sign, she places the ball into the glove hand and then separates them while taking the signs.She then takes the ball into the pitching hand and separates then begins the ptich and brings them together and pitches the ball. i think it's fine, but since she has brought them together twice-once when taking the sign from the catcher and then a second time as required when pitching motion has begun. I don't feel that the first time counts against her since she has not begun the pitch yet. You?

This one I told the umpire: Illegal pitch! Enter the pitcher's plate with the hands separate (good). While on the plate transfers the ball from the hand to the glove (illegal). The hand must come togeather AFTER the sign is taken, once the hands come apart the pitch begins and the next action must be throwing the ball. All that aside, she touched the ball with both hands while on the plate twice.

[Dakota]

For your first situation, it depends on why the pitch was illegal, but in no case do the runners return. Assuming the IP was one where it is a delayed dead ball, refer them to the illegal pitch penalty listed below 6-1-4 and the illegal pitch exception listed below 6-2-3. Here they are:

PENALTY: (Arts. 2, 3, 4) Illegal pitch. The ball is dead at the end of playing
action, if the ball is pitched. A ball is called on the batter, and base runners
are awarded one base without liability to be put out (See 6-2-3 Exception).

EXCEPTION: If the pitcher completes the delivery of the ball to the batter and the batter
hits the ball fair or foul, or becomes a base runner, the coach of the team at bat shall have
the option of the result of the play or the penalty for an illegal pitch. A delayed dead ball
will be signaled by the umpire by extending the left arm horizontally.

If it was an IP that results in an immediate dead ball, (e.g. foreign substance), then technically, the passed ball never happened, a ball is awarded to the batter and the runners are advanced (6-2-2 PENALTY).

[Dakota]

Oh, and for the second situation, correct. IP, double touch, although I have seen pitchers who can make this transfer from hand to glove and back without actually touching the hand/glove together.

[wadeintothem]

I wouldnt flame you BuggBob! We're buddies!

[BuggBob]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Oh, and for the second situation, correct. IP, double touch, although I have seen pitchers who can make this transfer from hand to glove and back without actually touching the hand/glove together.

SO if the pitch flips the ball from glove to hand or from hand to glove that don't count as a touch?

More info came in from the umpires involved in case 1. R1 @ 2nd, R2 @ 1st, 0-2 count, no outs. On the pass ball R1 scores, R2 ends at 3rd, B3 swings and misses for D3K, since 1st ocupied B3 is out. They allowed the score and awarded a ball to the batter for an illegal pitch. I think that would have been wrong, it is either the play or the penaty, not some hybrid of both. So the end result would be either:
R1 scores, R2 @ 3rd, B3 out, 1 out, next batter bats. -- the Play
Or R1 @ 3rd, R2 @ 2nd, 1-2 count on B3, still no outs. -- the penaty

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

SO if the pitch flips the ball from glove to hand or from hand to glove that don't count as a touch?

No, but ASA does require the ball to stay in one or the other while she is taking or pretending to take the signals from the catcher. (ASA 6-1-D). Fed does not have that statement in their rule.

More info came in from the umpires involved in case 1. R1 @ 2nd, R2 @ 1st, 0-2 count, no outs. On the pass ball R1 scores, R2 ends at 3rd, B3 swings and misses for D3K, since 1st ocupied B3 is out. They allowed the score and awarded a ball to the batter for an illegal pitch. I think that would have been wrong, it is either the play or the penaty, not some hybrid of both. So the end result would be either:
R1 scores, R2 @ 3rd, B3 out, 1 out, next batter bats. -- the Play
Or R1 @ 3rd, R2 @ 2nd, 1-2 count on B3, still no outs. -- the penaty

Your ruling is correct. One or the other, O coach's choice.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by Dakota

No, but ASA does require the ball to stay in one or the other while she is taking or pretending to take the signals from the catcher. (ASA 6-1-D). Fed does not have that statement in their rule.

Your ruling is correct. One or the other, O coach's choice.

Doesn't the batter have to hit the ball (fair or foul) or become a base runner for the O coach choice to become effective?

I have an IP, ball on the batter, each runner advances one base from TOP.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by argodad

Doesn't the batter have to hit the ball (fair or foul) or become a base runner for the O coach choice to become effective?....

She did...

Originally Posted by BuggBob

...B3 swings and misses for D3K...

But she was out due to 1B occupied and less than 2 outs.

[3SPORT]

Originally Posted by Dakota

But she was out due to 1B occupied and less than 2 outs.

So she was not a legal baserunner as she could not advance to first base.