Is this right ?

[FullCount]

Originally Posted by Dakota

True, but besides the rule prohibiting the stop, she may not legally step off / disengage once the hands have separated. Rule 6-8.In the case of the pitcher taking the plate with the hands together, if the steps back off before separating the hands, that act is legal.

The question is: is it already too late due to the clarification of Rule 6-1-A?

There are ASA clinicians who apparently are saying, yes, it is too late, which makes the ASA rule and interpretation the same as the NFHS rule and interpretation.

Yes, we were told that at that point it is too late. That was the whole point of the rule change- too make that very clarification.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by FullCount

Yes, we were told that at that point it is too late. That was the whole point of the rule change- too make that very clarification.

By what you have posted to this point, the only clinician that told you it could not be remedied by stepping off in an ASA game is the same one who previously stated (before the rule change) the same thing. The rule change does not state that; it clarifies what Dakota says, and what was questioned here, what was apparently unclear, that to be legal, a pitcher had to initiate the pitching position with hands separated, pause to take (or simulate taking) the signal, then must bring the hands together.

The rule change does NOT say it is illegal if she does any of this with hands together, as the one clinician has stated. Nothing there contradicts the ability of the pitcher to remedy the "will be illegal" by stepping off and restarting correctly. I have great respect, and a lot of (positive) history with that individual, I just don't see the rule stating what he is saying.

By Full Count's statements, KR did not make that statement. Maybe no one asked him, maybe he would issue an agreeing ruling. But he has not (that I am aware of), and that doesn't supercede what is in the book. He can; he hasn't.

Rwest, re-read what I already stated. It is my opinion that the NFHS case play ruling contradicts the written rule, but it is a written ruling. Tht makes it official; even if it stated that batters are awarded first base on an uncaught foul ball with a 2-1 count. An academic discussion can still ensue; but if that is the approved ruling, it is our job to enforce it (until someone in appropriate authority realizes it is wrong, or the written rule is changes to match).

[FullCount]

[QUOTE=AtlUmpSteve;578933]By what you have posted to this point, the only clinician that told you it could not be remedied by stepping off in an ASA game is the same one who previously stated (before the rule change) the same thing. The rule change does not state that; it clarifies what Dakota says, and what was questioned here, what was apparently unclear, that to be legal, a pitcher had to initiate the pitching position with hands separated, pause to take (or simulate taking) the signal, then must bring the hands together.

The rule change does NOT say it is illegal if she does any of this with hands together, as the one clinician has stated. Nothing there contradicts the ability of the pitcher to remedy the "will be illegal" by stepping off and restarting correctly. I have great respect, and a lot of (positive) history with that individual, I just don't see the rule stating what he is saying.

By Full Count's statements, KR did not make that statement. Maybe no one asked him, maybe he would issue an agreeing ruling. But he has not (that I am aware of), and that doesn't supercede what is in the book. He can; he hasn't. [QUOTE]


Good morning Steve,

Let me take another shot at this because I may be missing your point. First, the clinician who covered 2009 rules changes in the December NUS in DFW was Julie and her explanation was that the rule change now makes it an illegal pitch if the pitcher steps up on the plate with hands together and that a DDB signal was to be given then. Later, Walt was addressing game management and during his remarks he stated that this change was to make the rule consistent with the way everyone was already calling it- IP (his statement not mine). Three weeks later, at the DFW regional clinic Walt covered the rule changes and clearly stated the change was to make clear that this is an IP and was a result of a challenge that the pitcher could remedy the IP by stepping off. He said it would also help us address any future challenges with coaches who may try to contend that there was a remedy. Later that same day, KR, as part of his session discussed it again briefly and concurred that this is an IP. KR's comments were not a "ruling," but only part of a general discussion that came up about on-field situations.

But what I took away from both clinics is that in 2009 you can not remedy that IP infraction by stepping back off the plate before separating the hands. Maybe I misunderstood.