Catcher not returning ball to pitcher

[Tru_in_Blu]

In one of the earlier posts on this subject there was a situation mentioned where the throw back to the pitcher might not have been caught.

In a situation with no runners on base, and a count of 2-x on the batter, the pitcher throws a pitch she felt was a strike, but called a ball by the PU. She reacts by throwing her arms in the air and spinning quickly to face the outfield. As the catcher is in the midst of a return throw to the pitcher, she realizes the pitcher isn't looking at her and attempts to abort the throw, but it comes out of her had and results in a bouncing ball to F5 or F6.

"Technically" does anyone call an additional ball on the batter? I would not in this case.

Men's modified league with many amendments to ASA rules. Catcher in the first inning on the first batter throws the ball to F5 after ball 2 on the batter.

"Technically" you could call another ball on the batter. My path was to call timeout, and inform both coaches that the ball needs to go directly back to the pitcher. So each side essentially has a warning.

Sometimes "technically" can result in problems w/ game management.

Ted

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

In one of the earlier posts on this subject there was a situation mentioned where the throw back to the pitcher might not have been caught.

In a situation with no runners on base, and a count of 2-x on the batter, the pitcher throws a pitch she felt was a strike, but called a ball by the PU. She reacts by throwing her arms in the air and spinning quickly to face the outfield. As the catcher is in the midst of a return throw to the pitcher, she realizes the pitcher isn't looking at her and attempts to abort the throw, but it comes out of her had and results in a bouncing ball to F5 or F6.

"Technically" does anyone call an additional ball on the batter? I would not in this case.

Men's modified league with many amendments to ASA rules. Catcher in the first inning on the first batter throws the ball to F5 after ball 2 on the batter.

"Technically" you could call another ball on the batter. My path was to call timeout, and inform both coaches that the ball needs to go directly back to the pitcher. So each side essentially has a warning.

Sometimes "technically" can result in problems w/ game management.

Ted

If you're gonna hit them with a stick anyway, why not hit them with the stick provided in the rules. In your scenario, when the catcher throws it to F5 on Ball 2, I've got another ball on the batter. IMHO, THAT sounds a bigger, better warning than a warning to both coaches.

[Tru_in_Blu]

But John, I didn't hit them with a stick. It was still firmly secured in my utility belt.

Some of these older guys tend to forget sometimes, or they just might be testing the umpire. Most of these games I do are one umpire games until playoffs.

Guess I'm not as quick on the stick as you are. Just trying to avoid a bit of animosity with the teams. Usually we work double-headers with that particular crowd, only 4 team-league, so things do tend to become somewhat intimate at times.

Ted

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

In one of the earlier posts on this subject there was a situation mentioned where the throw back to the pitcher might not have been caught.

In a situation with no runners on base, and a count of 2-x on the batter, the pitcher throws a pitch she felt was a strike, but called a ball by the PU. She reacts by throwing her arms in the air and spinning quickly to face the outfield. As the catcher is in the midst of a return throw to the pitcher, she realizes the pitcher isn't looking at her and attempts to abort the throw, but it comes out of her had and results in a bouncing ball to F5 or F6.

"Technically" does anyone call an additional ball on the batter? I would not in this case.

Men's modified league with many amendments to ASA rules. Catcher in the first inning on the first batter throws the ball to F5 after ball 2 on the batter.

"Technically" you could call another ball on the batter. My path was to call timeout, and inform both coaches that the ball needs to go directly back to the pitcher. So each side essentially has a warning.

Sometimes "technically" can result in problems w/ game management.

Ted

Ted,
League play, early in the year - yeah, maybe. Generally though, somebody else has "warned" them and they choose to ignore. Grab your stick, whip it out and bang 'em - they'll get it then. Warnings do not usually work.

Your pitcher in the girl's game needs to be dealt with, but I agree with you in not calling a ball due to the catcher's bad throw. Especially since you should now be using the catcher to go tell the pitcher to knock off the hysterical garbage.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

In one of the earlier posts on this subject there was a situation mentioned where the throw back to the pitcher might not have been caught.

In a situation with no runners on base, and a count of 2-x on the batter, the pitcher throws a pitch she felt was a strike, but called a ball by the PU. She reacts by throwing her arms in the air and spinning quickly to face the outfield. As the catcher is in the midst of a return throw to the pitcher, she realizes the pitcher isn't looking at her and attempts to abort the throw, but it comes out of her had and results in a bouncing ball to F5 or F6.

"Technically" does anyone call an additional ball on the batter? I would not in this case.

Men's modified league with many amendments to ASA rules. Catcher in the first inning on the first batter throws the ball to F5 after ball 2 on the batter.

"Technically" you could call another ball on the batter. My path was to call timeout, and inform both coaches that the ball needs to go directly back to the pitcher. So each side essentially has a warning.

Sometimes "technically" can result in problems w/ game management.

Ted

In your first situation, I would be tempted to let the pitcher watch the rest of the game from the dugout. At the very least, the coach would be warned that any further antics of that type will earn her a game long trip to the bench. Would I call another ball on the batter? No. The catcher was attempting to return the ball to the pitcher.

In your second situation, I agree with the others that you should use the rules as the warning. Go ahead and call the "penalty" ball on the batter. I think both coaches would understand that warning much better than a verbal one by you.

Sadly, more so with adults than with the kids, the animosity already exists between the players and uniform in many cases. It is just looking for the chance to reveal itself. Not enforcing the rules, if they know what the rule is, is one of those situations that will bring that animosity to the surface quicker than the Flash with diarrhea.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Hey Scott,

Thanx for your [and other's] inputs. Since these were hypothetical situations, many of which we might actually see in games we've done or will do, it's nice to get some different points of view.

And since the pitcher's reaction wasn't fully described and it might have been a "had to be there" to judge situation, I'm not so sure I'd be advocating an ejection for those actions. A lot of things could come in to play here. I described no verbal outburst, or any projected ill will to the umpire. Could be the pitcher was struggling and frustrated with her performance to that point. I've seen players kick their gloves after booting a ground ball or cuss after dropping a popup. I don't view those as ejectionable [a word?] actions. And I'm pretty sure a coach would not be happy in such a situation, either. And, yes, I know...it's not our job to make a coach happy. I've been player, coach, league official, and now umpire, so I have the view from several perspectives.

Most of the games I do are in leagues where I'll see the players week after week. As umpires, we tend to know the players with a short fuse, or the baiters, or the whiners. And the players get to know the umpires. There've been a couple of times I worked a game with a partner who seems to show up to the game angry and with a need to be in full control. Sometimes, bringing the teams in from BP or infield practice results in some angry words. I'm embarassed for his actions and I certainly don't model my game management after his.

So when I arrive at a game, especially with teams I've worked with a lot, I'm hoping they're thinking that they're glad I'm there because of how I call a game and how I treat them. Yeah, sometimes it might get a little heated, but with me, it's never personal. I don't hold a grudge, I don't do make-up calls, and I try to make each call to the best of my ability. I've blown a few calls along the way, but I also occasionally hear after a game "good call blue, you got it right even if we did give you a ration of **** about it during the game."

Ted

[AtlUmpSteve]

Ted, I respect what you are saying. No need to look for issues that don't need to be issues.

But, I disagree with giving a warning for a clear rule violation with a clearly stated penalty; particularly in a men's modified league. That is a breed of game where firmly enforcing the rules is a necessary part of displaying game management, in my experience.