Catcher not returning ball to pitcher

[SRW]

Originally Posted by topper

Why would any code punish the defense and not the offense for a similar act such as this.

Obviously the acts you are trying to compare are not so similiar. If they were, they would be "punished" in similiar manners, as you are inferring. Perhaps you should re-think your question based on this, and what others have already posted.

[topper]

Originally Posted by SRW

Obviously the acts you are trying to compare are not so similiar. If they were, they would be "punished" in similiar manners, as you are inferring. Perhaps you should re-think your question based on this, and what others have already posted.

Thanks AtlUmpSteve for answering my 1st question.

It's not that obvious that, setting Steve's situation aside, 2 players inadvertently losing the count and delaying the game is not similar. It seems that there is more onus placed on the defense to keep track of the count than the offense. JMO

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by topper

...It seems that there is more onus placed on the defense to keep track of the count than the offense. JMO

Absolutely that is true. Is it "fair"? BFOM, but it is the rule.

3-1 count, no outs, bases empty. Pitch is low, batter swings and misses, F2 controls the ball after it hits the dirt. Batter takes off for 1B as if it was a dropped 3K. F2 throws to F3.

Ball 4?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Absolutely that is true. Is it "fair"? BFOM, but it is the rule.

1-3 count, no outs, bases empty. Pitch is low, batter swings and misses, F2 controls the ball after it hits the dirt. Batter takes off for 1B as if it was a dropped 3K. F2 throws to F3.

Ball 4?

I don't recall ever having a "1-3" count in my life!!!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I don't recall ever having a "1-3" count in my life!!!

Bla... 3-1.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Bla... 3-1.

Have you gotten in the habit of holdiing your indicator backwards or something?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Have you gotten in the habit of holdiing your indicator backwards or something?

Nah, just fiddling with the count to get the sitch right, and goofed it up... but what about the question... is it ball 4?

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Dakota

3-1 count, no outs, bases empty. Pitch is low, batter swings and misses, F2 controls the ball after it hits the dirt. Batter takes off for 1B as if it was a dropped 3K. F2 throws to F3.

Ball 4?

Is it ball 4? I don't have book at work but there is wording about when this is in effect (the ball on the batter penalty) is is limited to attempting to get a runner out? Or if there is a runner on base? Looking for the wording in this. Would it allow this throw to attempt to make a play on the batter-runner, which is a runner right? So I am asking since F2 was attempting to make a play on the BR would they be released from the must return to F1 rule?

Or taking it one step further is there any "release" from the F2 to F1 rule based on the actions of the batter-runner?

[Dakota]

From ASA 2007 (since I have that one electronically)
6FP-7-B

The catcher shall return the ball directly to the pitcher after each pitch, except after a strikeout, a put out or an attempted put out made by the catcher.
EXCEPTION: Does not apply with a runner(s) on base or the batter becoming a batter-runner.

In my situation, the bases were empty, the batter was still a batter, and not a BR. It was not strike 3. And, there could be no attempted put out since the batter was not in jeopardy.

[DaveASA/FED]

Well your right the runner was not in jeopardy of being put out, but IMJ that was an attempted put out when that F2 threw down to 1st. I'm not sure that would hold up under protest, but could it ever reach a protest? By rule I am right and I have a judgement of whether it was an attempted put out. Judgement can't be protested.....maybe the defination of attempted put out can be...but does it ever define what a throw down to first with a batter-runner running is?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

...but does it ever define what a throw down to first with a batter-runner running is?

Problem is, it was not a BR that was running. A batter cannot be put out by either F2 or F3.