2009 ASA Rule Changes Approved

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Click here for ASA's Non Approved Bats with Certification Marks (2000 and 2004)

http://www.asasoftball.com/about/bui..._pics_2000.asp

Thanks... jeez, the list is longer than I thought it would be!

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Wouldn't count on it. For one, you still need to make sure that it's a legal bat. Secondly, a bat ring is your first line of defense against a bat that has been painted. These bat doctors are good, but even the best bat doctors eventually make mistakes.

I didn't even think of the altered bat issue. Thanks!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Then, I don't understand the change. Is it a technical change to the rule wording (since the RS already says ANY fielder...)

Maybe I'm misreading the change. Unfortunately, my committee assignments kept me away from those in which many of these changes were discussed.

This adds the bold wording: "If properly appealed by any defensive player during a live ball, the runner is out."

Since a proper live ball appeal will always include a defensive player, I'm reading this as adding the word "any" for some reason.

Maybe Steve or Darrell had the opportunity to sit in on a meeting where this was explained.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Yeah, you would think it is that obvious, that a live ball appeal must be made by a defensive player, with the ball, touching a player or missed base, who verbalizes or otherwise indicates the intent to appeal. But the rule 8-7 F-I Effect 2 only says properly appealed, and defensive team, and I can only assume that some ucking fidiot (Sorry, John , but it fits) anally read that one section without any context and allowed a coach or someone else to verbalize what the appeal was.

This was Bernie's, and people generally accepted his position that it was unclear as written.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I am going to disagree with Mike's statement that unreported subs will have no penalty. All of the penalties and effects in Rule 4-6.C (1-9) described, remain, EXCEPT that there unreported sub is now NOT disqualified as a secondary effect.

So, if appealed after hitting, but before a following pitch or play, treat as a reported sub that has (effectively) now batted out of order. If appealed after making a play defensively, the offense has the option of the result of the play or nullifying the play (a do-over assuming the prior count).

As it used to be.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

...This was Bernie's, and people generally accepted his position that it was unclear as written.

That is what I was getting at with the technical correction comment.

There is this wording in the rule book:

When the runner leaves a base to advance to another base before a caught fly ball has touched a fielder, provided the ball is returned to an infielder and properly appealed.

(8-7-F)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I am going to disagree with Mike's statement that unreported subs will have no penalty. All of the penalties and effects in Rule 4-6.C (1-9) described, remain, EXCEPT that there unreported sub is now NOT disqualified as a secondary effect.

I guess that depends on what you think is a "penalty". For subpara 3, yes.

So, if appealed after hitting, but before a following pitch or play, treat as a reported sub that has (effectively) now batted out of order.

Okay, but that isn't a penalty for the Unreported Sub. It is an out that probably wouldn't have occurred, but it also is ruling another player out, not the one who violated the rule. BTW, I'm not completely sure this is "never" the player's fault especially in adult ball.

Look at the effect for subpara 4, 5 & 6. If s/he is not DQ'd, there is no longer a need to replace her/him on a base in other situations?

I cannot remember which committee (Slow Pitch rules, maybe) where someone was asked "What is the penalty?" when noted that DQ was too severe a penalty. The response was to the effect that they believed it would be an out.

I'm curious as to how close the author looked at the effects before proposing the changes.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

A conference will not be charged when the pitcher is removed

A bat must have an ASA Certification stamp on it.

Thats good. This is a mens ball issue IMO, and that will help them.

Metal spikes worn when prohibited will result in an ejection if the player refuses to remove them

thanks for nothing on that

20 second violation is now just a ball on the batter, not IP

Gorilla Gold now legal for FP

Thank you ASA. Very nice!

All FP and ADA players can use courtesy runner. ADA CR can be any player.

Men's FP catcher can use courtesy runner

Free CR's for all huh?

Whatever.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Free CR's for all huh?

Whatever.

No. Put back in rule context, the youth courtesy runner rule for pitcher and catcher (requires a legal sub, can only run for one position, run for position not player, etc) is now extended for all levels of Fast Pitch. If you do Men's, Women's or 23U, you know that is how they play most of the time, anyway, so now it is extended to Championship Play rules, not a local exception.

The ADA exception will apply to maybe 5 people in the country; but, it does. If an ADA certified individual (must have card, etc) bats and gets on base, and his disability affects running, they may have a courtesy runner similar to the Seniors, meaning any available player or sub. This isn't something worth getting worked up over; the odds of you needing to apply this in your lifetime are pretty limited.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

No. Put back in rule context, the youth courtesy runner rule for pitcher and catcher (requires a legal sub, can only run for one position, run for position not player, etc) is now extended for all levels of Fast Pitch. If you do Men's, Women's or 23U, you know that is how they play most of the time, anyway, so now it is extended to Championship Play rules, not a local exception.

The ADA exception will apply to maybe 5 people in the country; but, it does. If an ADA certified individual (must have card, etc) bats and gets on base, and his disability affects running, they may have a courtesy runner similar to the Seniors, meaning any available player or sub. This isn't something worth getting worked up over; the odds of you needing to apply this in your lifetime are pretty limited.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Can they CR for F5 in JO championship play next year?

[SRW]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I'm not sure what you mean.

Can they CR for F5 in JO championship play next year?

That's what Irish implied with my post earlier... Steve is implying that the current rule is expanded to other levels of play (which, IMO makes sense). But if Mike's correct, CR's can be used for any player and any position by any legal player on the roster. Seems odd if Mike's right...

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

They're going to need a whole separate book next year - just to list and explain all the new rules!

Hooray for Optic Yellow!

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I'm not sure what you mean.

Can they CR for F5 in JO championship play next year?

If F5 is a certified ADA player, yes. The ADA rule allowing a disabled player to play just offense or defense has been expanded to allow one playing offense to have a courtesy runner.

For the standard league or tournament game you will call, there has been no change in the JO courtesy runner rule. Only if a team presents a lineup with an ADA certified player do you need to change anything.

For all adult fastpitch, the same courtesy runners as JO. For Masters and Senior slowpitch, the same rule they have had.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

If F5 is a certified ADA player, yes. The ADA rule allowing a disabled player to play just offense or defense has been expanded to allow one playing offense to have a courtesy runner.

For the standard league or tournament game you will call, there has been no change in the JO courtesy runner rule. Only if a team presents a lineup with an ADA certified player do you need to change anything.

For all adult fastpitch, the same courtesy runners as JO. For Masters and Senior slowpitch, the same rule they have had.

OK thanks! Much better!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Free CR's for all huh?

Whatever.

No, it means the existing Courtesy Runner in use now applies to all FP, not just JO as present.

An ADA can use it regardless of position.

What I don't like is that as soon as this passed, so did the exclusion of the Men's FP pitcher from the rule.