Proposed ASA Rule Changes #1

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Okay....since there have been way too many posts to quote properly, lets review - first about the OY ball:

As somebody (Im not looking back and trying to find it!)said, if making the OY mandatory the next couple years makes things a little simpler for both the manufacturer AND user, whats the big deal???? OYIS SAFER...plus as I put it, if you are playing on an unlighted field, you might actually get to play a little bit longer as you get towards twilight. The people complaining about this are sounding like the TENNIS people, for cripe's sake, when that sport went from white to yellow! I find personally the OY is much more visible after several innings of usage - it simply stands out through the dirt better....

Now for the pants -

At the end of the 06 season, our local group decided to go to grey for the following reasons:

Yes, a lot of our people do college ball...and a lot do HS baseball, too...so if one is traveling from either to do an ASA game, heres no change of pants involved.


We do a lot of PONY tournaments locally, and PONY told us that we HAD to wear grey for those tournaments - so a lot of our people were going to have to buy grey anyways

The only fly in this ointment is that NYS hs softball still mandates the navy slacks - but then again , NYS only changes that sort of things when it absolutely HAS to -partially because many of the umpires who live in the North Country simply do not work a lot of games due to the weather. NY only abandoned the Elbecos when it became obvious that the Elbecos were simply not going to be available anymore.

As has been said before, NOTHING looks as crappy as the navy blue pants after working around HP in the dust for a few innings. And nothing is as HOT as those navy blues on a hot day, either. If you think the players care a flying cr*p about you having sweat stains, you are worrying about the wrong thing - besides, change pants in between games!

And in a similar vein, when we started going out there in the powder blue/grey combination...NOBODY CARED!! And we actually got a few compliments along the way....Before this year, a few of our 'elite' umps had got the grey and the dark navy tops, and starting to wear them to some night games -its a VERY sharp looking combination, and more of have started to do it. It does look very nice under the lights.... The dark navy top seems to be a slightly different mesh than the powder, and is not hot at ALL!
Again, the dark navy PANTS are definitely hotter than the heather grey - which is why I think the heather grey will win out in the end....


I think SOME of you would be very happy to go back to the heavy dark blue shirts and pants they wore back in the fifities....

[SethPDX]

Thanks for the story.

Here in Oregon, OSAA says light blue and heather gray, and I don't hear complaining about buying two sets of pants. And I think that combination looks just fine on the field. I guess I just don't buy into any of the reasons given for blue pants.

Heather gray might win out, but by that time I wonder if the charcoal grays won't be creeping into softball.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Thanks for the story.

Here in Oregon, OSAA says light blue and heather gray, and I don't hear complaining about buying two sets of pants. And I think that combination looks just fine on the field. I guess I just don't buy into any of the reasons given for blue pants.

Heather gray might win out, but by that time I wonder if the charcoal grays won't be creeping into softball.

Just depends on whether you wanna work for Duffy or Garrett.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Thanks for the story.

Here in Oregon, OSAA says light blue and heather gray, and I don't hear complaining about buying two sets of pants. And I think that combination looks just fine on the field. I guess I just don't buy into any of the reasons given for blue pants.

Heather gray might win out, but by that time I wonder if the charcoal grays won't be creeping into softball.

I understand the charcoal gray is now OK for school baseball here in Pa, and I'm hoping that goes over to softball. I'd prefer the darker gray over the heather gray - I think. I'm one of those who sweat - a lot. On a hot day, I'm soaked no matter what color pants I'm wearing. I prefer the darker colored navy because they do not show the wet.

As far as college ball goes, one of the groups I'm in seems to prefer the gray pants. The other almost insists on the navy.

As for PONY telling folks in NY to wear gray, that's local. According to their rule book, the standard uniform is navy pants & powder shirt - or so I think I read in the 2007 book. Although, most of the PONY ball I've done has been with gray pants.

I guess some folks like to look like high school umpires.

[tcannizzo]

Mike wrote:
Hey, look, Tony's still alive!!!
Gone but not forgotten.
Back but not umpiring.
Coaching 12-U.
Now just another PITA coach who thinks he knows something about softball and rules and such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcannizzo
Bunt – A batted ball not swung at, but instead hit by the batter who holds the bat in the path of the ball and taps it slowly within the infield

Quote:

a.) Define "swung"
b.) Define "slowly" - there is something called a push bunt which is a hard bunt intended to pass the pitcher or an agreessively charging defender.
c.) "Infield" implies fair territory, which would conflict with a 3rd strike bunt foul.

No argument the wording could be better, but your questions are the type of things that are causing folks to believe there is a need to define it instead of leaving up to the umpire's judgment. We all know when we see a bunt and I don't need a rule to provide specs.

As I replied earlier, then why the effort necessary to define "Bunt"?

Quote:

Charged Conference – It is not a charged conference if the pitcher is removed from the pitching position during a conference.

Quote:

Comment: Free ticket for coach abuse. Call time, go talk to your SS/2B, change the pitcher, no charge. Next inning, change pitchers back to original.

Not really. It is no different than what they can do now, it is just a matter of when the umpire is informed. And it is a valid argument if concerning the pitcher's health.
Concerning pitcher's health: Yes, valid argument, but with current rule, as a coach, if I am concerned about pitcher's health, I am notifiing PU before entering field of play. Said notification will include some sort of justification. New rule creates opportunities.

Quote:

Eliminate disqualification for an unreported substitute violation.

Quote:

Comment: This change should be for JO only. This is not a bad rule for adult ball as there is more liklihood for the adult player to be deliberatley involved in the unreported violation. Thus punishes a kid who is more likely to be an innocent victim.

Regardless of the change, I think you have it backwards. FP coaches are much more likely to be intelligent enough and sly enough to try to intentionally try to slip one by the opponent or umpire
C'mon Mike. Sure there are devious travel coaches. I happen to be one. But there are just as many devious coaches of adult teams. The likelyhood of an adult player being aware of the shennanigans is orders of magnitude greater than that of a youth player.


Quote:

Allow an unlimited batting order in Girl’s B FP and all FP pool play.
Comment: Good change.

That depends on whether pool play is for seeding or not and the ramifications of going short-handed being addressed.
Class B is just that. It is about participation.
Short-handed is still the same. Drop below 8 and you are done.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Short-handed is still the same. Drop below 8 and you are done.

No, that is not the rule, COACH!

The rule states:

4.1.D.2 If a team begins play with the required number of players as listed, that team may continue a game with one less player than is currently in the batting order whenever a players leave the game for any reason other than ejection.

Notice it states one less than is currently in the batting order, not one less than the required number to begin the game.

That means if the batting order includes 14 players, one leaves and another is injured to the point of not being able to continue, the game is over.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, that is not the rule, COACH!

The rule states:

4.1.D.2 If a team begins play with the required number of players as listed, that team may continue a game with one less player than is currently in the batting order whenever a players leave the game for any reason other than ejection.

Notice it states one less than is currently in the batting order, not one less than the required number to begin the game.

That means if the batting order includes 14 players, one leaves and another is injured to the point of not being able to continue, the game is over.

Yes, if they are going to add bat-the-roster to the rule book, they will need to address the side effects. Among them are:

1) Shorthanded rule. What does shorthanded mean in a bat-the-roster game? If they drop down 1 (from, say, 14 to 13), do they take an out?

2) What about ejections? If one player is ejected, do they now forfeit (can't play shorthanded due to ejection).

3) Two players down... is it a forfeit to go from 14 to 12? (Mike's example)

4) Courtesy runner rule. Since everyone is batting, does this mean no courtesy runners?

If this gets added, I certainly hope the ASA conference / convention / convocation (whatever it is called) does not muck this rule up as badly as your typical rec league does.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Yes, if they are going to add bat-the-roster to the rule book, they will need to address the side effects. Among them are:

1) Shorthanded rule. What does shorthanded mean in a bat-the-roster game? If they drop down 1 (from, say, 14 to 13), do they take an out?

answered

2) What about ejections? If one player is ejected, do they now forfeit (can't play shorthanded due to ejection).

answered

3) Two players down... is it a forfeit to go from 14 to 12? (Mike's example)

answered

4) Courtesy runner rule. Since everyone is batting, does this mean no courtesy runners?

By rule, no.

There are no proposals to change the rule regarding playing shorthand. For that matter, a note attached to the change in 4.1.C states that the shorthanded rule would apply is it does presently.

If this gets added, I certainly hope the ASA conference / convention / convocation (whatever it is called) does not muck this rule up as badly as your typical rec league does.[/quote]

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, that is not the rule, COACH!

The rule states:

4.1.D.2 If a team begins play with the required number of players as listed, that team may continue a game with one less player than is currently in the batting order whenever a players leave the game for any reason other than ejection.

Notice it states one less than is currently in the batting order, not one less than the required number to begin the game.

That means if the batting order includes 14 players, one leaves and another is injured to the point of not being able to continue, the game is over.

Ya got me, BLUE!!!
If the rule get written as described, then I would not be in favor of the rule for GFP.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Thanks for the story.

Here in Oregon, OSAA says light blue and heather gray, and I don't hear complaining about buying two sets of pants. And I think that combination looks just fine on the field. I guess I just don't buy into any of the reasons given for blue pants.

Heather gray might win out, but by that time I wonder if the charcoal grays won't be creeping into softball.

charcoal needs to creep in..
and ASA's OKC cowboy cut needs to run way.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Just depends on whether you wanna work for Duffy or Garrett.

Well, Portland ASA is separate from the HS association, so all Duffy does is sell us uniforms. I've never met Garrett but since he tells our commissioner what's up I guess I work for him.

Originally Posted by Steve M

I understand the charcoal gray is now OK for school baseball here in Pa, and I'm hoping that goes over to softball.

From the baseball forum it seems like charcoal is gradually taking over everywhere; NFHS actually deleted the rulebook reference to "heather." If more of the baseball guys I work with in the summer had them I would pick some up as well since all I ever read is rave reviews about them.

[IRISHMAFIA]

No one is talking about local ball. I'm talking about Championship Play.

AFA dirt on one's pants when working a dusty field, try looking below at your shoes. Shall we change them to tan or gray? Yeah, my blue pants get dirty and between the games, I hit them with the brush before I clean my shoes.

And, BTW, NCAA is powder over navy and have even a stricter policy than ASA.

And PONY in this area wear powder over navy.

And personally, if ASA goes to gray, that's fine by me ALA they get rid of the navy.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No one is talking about local ball. I'm talking about Championship Play.

AFA dirt on one's pants when working a dusty field, try looking below at your shoes. Shall we change them to tan or gray? Yeah, my blue pants get dirty and between the games, I hit them with the brush before I clean my shoes.

And, BTW, NCAA is powder over navy and have even a stricter policy than ASA.

And PONY in this area wear powder over navy.

And personally, if ASA goes to gray, that's fine by me ALA they get rid of the navy.

MIke, I wish I cared about ASA championship play. I'm in a district in Pa where the commissioner, to the best of my knowledge, has not sent any umpire outside of his district in a long time. Biased opinion, to be sure, but I am quite sure that I'm at least as good as more than 90% of the folks who get to work a national. The ASA ball - regionals & so on - that I have traveled to were because the uic called me and asked me to come. The eastern national that I did was run by this guy, so he wanted to make sure he looked good. I've got far more opportunity in high school ball, college ball, ISC ball than I'll ever get as long as this guy is in charge of this district in Pa.
Like I said, I wish I cared about ASA championship play - but since the opportunity is not there, I won't allow myself to care.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No one is talking about local ball. I'm talking about Championship Play.

AFA dirt on one's pants when working a dusty field, try looking below at your shoes. Shall we change them to tan or gray? Yeah, my blue pants get dirty and between the games, I hit them with the brush before I clean my shoes.

And, BTW, NCAA is powder over navy and have even a stricter policy than ASA.

And PONY in this area wear powder over navy.

And personally, if ASA goes to gray, that's fine by me ALA they get rid of the navy.

Cant get rid of navy.

Heather + Navy = best ASA uniform. After a day of working.. put it on for the championship game, everyone loves it. I get more compliments in that uniform than any other. Powder is oK, its become a standard.. it doesnt look the best, but I agree, obviously it is definitely a standard umpiring color.

We need to go to the darker colors.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

Again, the dark navy PANTS are definitely hotter than the heather grey - which is why I think the heather grey will win out in the end....

And many believe that is as much a myth as the hands being part of the bat. Personally, I've never noticed any difference and, yes, I do wear both.