interference or obstruction?

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by topper

I undertand, but your you first post confuses me in that it stated that "Had the OBS not occurred, R1 still would have been out.". It either is, or is not, OBS. If it is, I certainly don't need to tell you that the runner cannot be called out. If you meant that you would not have had OBS, then it's a matter of judgement, not rules.

I think you are confusing who he said is out. He is saying R1 is protected from the OBS. However, the BR (B2 in the original posting) is not protected since they were not OBS and the OBS had no bearing on their being out.

[topper]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

I think you are confusing who he said is out. He is saying R1 is protected from the OBS. However, the BR (B2 in the original posting) is not protected since they were not OBS and the OBS had no bearing on their being out.

I don't think so. I see no mention of the BR in the OP or Irish's other than her hitting the ball to F4. Read it again.

[CajunNewBlue]

F4 made the choice (not to tag and go for the force) and then obstructing (she now has to deal with it)... I have R1 safe at second and the BR (im guessing safe?? at first... unless they threw her out for the force, nothing about it in the OP). conversation goes like this... DC: blue you cant call that? BU: that's obstruction coach...lets play ball. (6 words)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

I undertand, but your you first post confuses me in that it stated that "Had the OBS not occurred, R1 still would have been out.". It either is, or is not, OBS. If it is, I certainly don't need to tell you that the runner cannot be called out. If you meant that you would not have had OBS, then it's a matter of judgement, not rules.

If that is what you are looking for, fine, you got it.

BTW, how many people do live in Wilmington?

Don't know, don't care especially since I've never lived in Wilmington.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by topper

I don't think so. I see no mention of the BR in the OP or Irish's other than her hitting the ball to F4. Read it again.

I did misread it...sorry.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't know, don't care especially since I've never lived in Wilmington.

Right. You live in the BIG city!

Just to be clear, in the OP, it is problematical from the description given whether there even was obstruction (was R1 already retired?; was R1 saved from crash interference by F4 throwing the ball at the last second?...)

But, if there WAS obstruction, it doesn't matter whether R1 was a dead duck. She is now not out, and is placed on 2B (if BR is safe) or back on 1B if BR was put out (again, assuming R1 would not have made 2B had there been no OBS).

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by umpire george

R1 on 1st base. B2 hits ball to F4, standing in baseline. F4 has opportunity to tag R1 but decides to toss ball to F6 for force out. Ball reaches F6 in plenty of time for force but R1 in attempting to reach 2nd base runs into F4 without the ball.
I call obstruction on F4. Did I make right call?

No you did not make the right call IMO, and I did not HTBT to know that.

You made a big error and you should do what I do when I make an error, you should beat yourself up over it so hopefully you dont do it again. It truly was a horrible call.

F4 is either fielding a batted ball OR R1 is out. There is no nano second OBS from the moment of release of the throw to the moment of the catch by F6. Thats not the intent of the rules and I'm surprised anyone is making any comments to the contrary.

This is not even OOO (which would be a best case situation for this scenario), this is a blown call.

In fact, I'd say if F6 had missed the throw you might have gotten away with a freebie OOO int Out, which would be preferable to this horrible OBS call.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Anyone else have a problem with these two statements?

I do.

not as much as this one

Caveat: It is a judgement call. If the BU rules obs, then it's obs. We might visit about it out back after the game, but it is a judgement call.

If BU makes that call I'm off counting carrier pigeons while hes getting yelled at, then, later, its my turn to let him know he blew it.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

F4 made the choice (not to tag and go for the force) and then obstructing (she now has to deal with it)... I have R1 safe at second and the BR (im guessing safe?? at first... unless they threw her out for the force, nothing about it in the OP). conversation goes like this... DC: blue you cant call that? BU: that's obstruction coach...lets play ball. (6 words)

That is horrible. Terrible. You made up OBS. Its easy to end a conversation with a coach in any number of ways; that is the easy part; it is better to understand the rules and their intent and to get it right.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

F4 made the choice (not to tag and go for the force) and then obstructing (she now has to deal with it)... I have R1 safe at second and the BR (im guessing safe?? at first... unless they threw her out for the force, nothing about it in the OP). conversation goes like this... DC: blue you cant call that? BU: that's obstruction coach...lets play ball. (6 words)

Well, the ball is dead when an obstructed runner is put out. Here's an alternative scenario that one of the more veteran folks can check that covers how I think it should go down in the case where you actually have obstruction (which as many have noted you don't in this play.)

New play with blatant obstruction to simplify:
R1 on 1B. Ball hit to F6 playing close to Second with F4 shifted toward first. F4 collides with R1 a few steps before F6 gets to the bag. F6 to F3 to retire the BR well before the ball gets there. No chance that R1 could have beaten F6 to the bag.

Now, since I called obstruction on a runner who was put out the play the ball was immediately ruled dead (which deals with your parenthetical). The rules say to put everyone where in my judgment they would have gotten if not for the obstruction. I'm not sure that awarding them both seats in the dugout is quite the intent though. So in my OP, as I've understood it, I've got both runners safe because of F4's obstruction. If on the other hand, F6 doesn't step on the base, then I can get the out on BR and put R1 back on 1B.

Does that all sound right?
________
Infants Avandia

[topper]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

F4 is either fielding a batted ball OR R1 is out. There is no nano second OBS from the moment of release of the throw to the moment of the catch by F6. Thats not the intent of the rules and I'm surprised anyone is making any comments to the contrary.

I'm not as sure as you are that I wouldn't HTBT, but a good case can be made for this to be considered a "crash". I only questioned the idea that and obstructed runner can be called out between the bases where OBS occurred.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

In fact, I'd say if F6 had missed the throw you might have gotten away with a freebie OOO int Out, which would be preferable to this horrible OBS call.

Now who's making things up? Did R1 running into F4 affect F6's ability to catch the ball even if it didn't affect the throw? When you make that call, please post it on here so others can bash you like you've bashed them.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by topper

I'm not as sure as you are that I wouldn't HTBT, but a good case can be made for this to be considered a "crash". I only questioned the idea that and obstructed runner can be called out between the bases where OBS occurred.

An obstructed runner can be put out between the bases where OBS occurred, and those instances are exactly and clearly defined in the rulebook.

Luckily, there is no obstructed runner in this scenario, so that is moot.

Originally Posted by topper

Now who's making things up? Did R1 running into F4 affect F6's ability to catch the ball even if it didn't affect the throw? When you make that call, please post it on here so others can bash you like you've bashed them.

If a made a horrible call like OBS or INT on this play, I would do enough bashing on myself to make up for the fact I would never post it on here

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by youngump

...If on the other hand, F6 doesn't step on the base, then I can get the out on BR and put R1 back on 1B...

You have no dead ball here. You don't put her back on 1B if she successfully made it to 2B while the defense was trying for the out on the BR.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

That is horrible. Terrible. You made up OBS. Its easy to end a conversation with a coach in any number of ways; that is the easy part; it is better to understand the rules and their intent and to get it right.

lol... ok, so i made up OBS (you caught me coach)... fielder no longer had the ball and obstructed the runner (per the OP). d$mn, i hate when i make crap up. and making judgements by intent of rule and ignoring word of rule is to be avoided.

[CajunNewBlue]

dang i hate double posts...