interference or obstruction?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...Even if it was an extremely slow toss of the ball, the purpose of OBS is to off-set the affect of the obstruction. Had the OBS not occurred, R1 still would have been out.

Originally Posted by bkbjones

...If, in the sole judgement of the umpire, there is no frickin way she was going to get to the bag before being put out, there is no obs....

Anyone else have a problem with these two statements?

I do.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Anyone else have a problem with these two statements?

I do.

So what is your problem with those statements? Maybe they could have been more "politically correct" but they are basically stating the same thing that we have been told, if the play would have been an out without the OBS then it remains an out. The classic example of a pop fly to the outfield that is caught in the air for an out, if the BR rounds first and trips over the first baseperson we still got an out....the OBS in that case doesn't let them have 2nd base, they are still out. I see it as the same type of interpretation, agian could have been worded differently so it didnt' seem like they were "making up" a ruling and hiding behind the J card (in my judgement) but I see the validity in their reasoning.

So what would you rule and why??

[topper]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Anyone else have a problem with these two statements?

I do.

If these 2 statements are saying that they have an obstructed runner called out between the bases where the OBS occurred, I do too.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by topper

If these 2 statements are saying that they have an obstructed runner called out between the bases where the OBS occurred, I do too.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. While the objective of the OBS rule is to restore things as if the OBS had not taken place, in no way does this ever say that between the bases where the OBS occurred, you let the out stand merely because without OBS, the runner would have been out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Anyone else have a problem with these two statements?

I do.

Sorry to hear that, but that's life in the big city.

Of course, these comments were specific to the play at hand. Not much different than OBS on a BR between the plate and 1B on a caught fly ball.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sorry to hear that, but that's life in the big city.

Of course, these comments were specific to the play at hand. Not much different than OBS on a BR between the plate and 1B on a caught fly ball.

I wasn't aware DE had any big cities...

I know your comments were specific to the play at hand, but in general, a runner is protected between the bases where the obs occurred EVEN IF the runner was a certain out.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I know your comments were specific to the play at hand, but in general, a runner is protected between the bases where the obs occurred EVEN IF the runner was a certain out.

Yes, and if she were obstructed she would be protected by rule. I certainly have no reason why that rule would not be enforced. sorry I wasn't more clear. I guess I should have realized someone would read far more into it than I intended...arrrgggh

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sorry to hear that, but that's life in the big city.

Of course, these comments were specific to the play at hand. Not much different than OBS on a BR between the plate and 1B on a caught fly ball.

I undertand, but your you first post confuses me in that it stated that "Had the OBS not occurred, R1 still would have been out.". It either is, or is not, OBS. If it is, I certainly don't need to tell you that the runner cannot be called out. If you meant that you would not have had OBS, then it's a matter of judgement, not rules.

BTW, how many people do live in Wilmington?

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by topper

I undertand, but your you first post confuses me in that it stated that "Had the OBS not occurred, R1 still would have been out.". It either is, or is not, OBS. If it is, I certainly don't need to tell you that the runner cannot be called out. If you meant that you would not have had OBS, then it's a matter of judgement, not rules.

I think you are confusing who he said is out. He is saying R1 is protected from the OBS. However, the BR (B2 in the original posting) is not protected since they were not OBS and the OBS had no bearing on their being out.

[topper]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

I think you are confusing who he said is out. He is saying R1 is protected from the OBS. However, the BR (B2 in the original posting) is not protected since they were not OBS and the OBS had no bearing on their being out.

I don't think so. I see no mention of the BR in the OP or Irish's other than her hitting the ball to F4. Read it again.

[CajunNewBlue]

F4 made the choice (not to tag and go for the force) and then obstructing (she now has to deal with it)... I have R1 safe at second and the BR (im guessing safe?? at first... unless they threw her out for the force, nothing about it in the OP). conversation goes like this... DC: blue you cant call that? BU: that's obstruction coach...lets play ball. (6 words)

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

F4 made the choice (not to tag and go for the force) and then obstructing (she now has to deal with it)... I have R1 safe at second and the BR (im guessing safe?? at first... unless they threw her out for the force, nothing about it in the OP). conversation goes like this... DC: blue you cant call that? BU: that's obstruction coach...lets play ball. (6 words)

That is horrible. Terrible. You made up OBS. Its easy to end a conversation with a coach in any number of ways; that is the easy part; it is better to understand the rules and their intent and to get it right.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

F4 made the choice (not to tag and go for the force) and then obstructing (she now has to deal with it)... I have R1 safe at second and the BR (im guessing safe?? at first... unless they threw her out for the force, nothing about it in the OP). conversation goes like this... DC: blue you cant call that? BU: that's obstruction coach...lets play ball. (6 words)

Well, the ball is dead when an obstructed runner is put out. Here's an alternative scenario that one of the more veteran folks can check that covers how I think it should go down in the case where you actually have obstruction (which as many have noted you don't in this play.)

New play with blatant obstruction to simplify:
R1 on 1B. Ball hit to F6 playing close to Second with F4 shifted toward first. F4 collides with R1 a few steps before F6 gets to the bag. F6 to F3 to retire the BR well before the ball gets there. No chance that R1 could have beaten F6 to the bag.

Now, since I called obstruction on a runner who was put out the play the ball was immediately ruled dead (which deals with your parenthetical). The rules say to put everyone where in my judgment they would have gotten if not for the obstruction. I'm not sure that awarding them both seats in the dugout is quite the intent though. So in my OP, as I've understood it, I've got both runners safe because of F4's obstruction. If on the other hand, F6 doesn't step on the base, then I can get the out on BR and put R1 back on 1B.

Does that all sound right?
________
Infants Avandia

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by topper

I don't think so. I see no mention of the BR in the OP or Irish's other than her hitting the ball to F4. Read it again.

I did misread it...sorry.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

I undertand, but your you first post confuses me in that it stated that "Had the OBS not occurred, R1 still would have been out.". It either is, or is not, OBS. If it is, I certainly don't need to tell you that the runner cannot be called out. If you meant that you would not have had OBS, then it's a matter of judgement, not rules.

If that is what you are looking for, fine, you got it.

BTW, how many people do live in Wilmington?

Don't know, don't care especially since I've never lived in Wilmington.