Fair/foul call

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Exactly. That is why I used it. ASA 1.Fair Ball.F says an untouched batted ball that lands beyond the diamond will be a fair ball even if it rolls into foul territory. This means that an untouched batted ball that lands inside the diamond and rolls into foul territory will be a foul ball.

The interpretation of the NFHS rule is in conflict with this.

So you use the inverse of a rule as a rule?

Are you in IT, by any chance?

If using this logic, then the tie must definitely go to the runner. Just picking.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Are you in IT, by any chance?

I used to be.

I would have used any of the cites in 1.Foul Ball, but none of them seemed to apply to the situation. The closest was the inverse of 1.Fair Ball.F.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I used to be.

Damn! I called that one! Must take one to know one.

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I would have used any of the cites in 1.Foul Ball, but none of them seemed to apply to the situation. The closes was the inverse of 1.Fair Ball.F.

Again, that's my problem with the wording. I realize this has probably a one in a million chance of happening, but when it does happen, we want some clarity. A diagonal, in my opinion, is no good, as we have nothing on the field to reference one (what? we want more lines?!). I think what is INTENDED is for us to use the baselines, and that's what I'll call.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I think what is INTENDED is for us to use the baselines, and that's what I'll call.

You don't work NFHS fastpitch do you?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

You don't work NFHS fastpitch do you?

Nope! ASA SP only.

[IRISHMAFIA]

What is so hard about this? This is simple. The definitions note specifics that make a batted ball fair or foul.

It is not a matter that the batted ball meets an event-specific definition. The point is the batted ball does NOT meet the definition of a fair ball, therefore cannot be a fair ball.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What is so hard about this? This is simple. The definitions note specifics that make a batted ball fair or foul.

It is not a matter that the batted ball meets an event-specific definition. The point is the batted ball does NOT meet the definition of a fair ball, therefore cannot be a fair ball.

The only thing "hard" about this is the fact that it's just one of those things that's understood as simple common sense, but I can picture some nutball coach trying and (cringe... possibly even successfully) arguing that this is a fair ball. Maybe they're used to NFHS. Maybe they're used to some 65' (or whatever your base distance is) arch across the field. Maybe they're used to space aliens with IR looking over the field. Who knows?

We know what the call is. The point is: how?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

We know what the call is. The point is: how?

How? I just told you how. The batted ball does not meet the definition of a fair ball. Okay, if it isn't a fair ball, what else can it be?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

How? I just told you how. The batted ball does not meet the definition of a fair ball. Okay, if it isn't a fair ball, what else can it be?

My point is... "Beyond" what? If it stops a few feet shy of 2B, which is 91' 11" on a 65' base field, then rolls into foul territory on the HP side of 1B or 3B, one may argue that it went almost 25' beyond 1B or 3B.

Note I said "argue" and not "reason."

Can we enforce an un-rule?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

My point is... "Beyond" what? If it stops a few feet shy of 2B, which is 91' 11" on a 65' base field, then rolls into foul territory on the HP side of 1B or 3B, one may argue that it went almost 25' beyond 1B or 3B.

Note I said "argue" and not "reason."

Can we enforce an un-rule?

One may argue that stealing is only allowed during a full moon. Doesn't mean I'm going to stand there and listen to it.

[Tex]

Foul ball in both ASA and NFHS. Ball did not touch or go past 1st base. Simple as that. Don't understand the confusion. The ball can touch in right field, spin back toward 1st base, and go over the foul line between home and 1st base. All of this without being touched. The result is a foul ball.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Tex

Foul ball in both ASA and NFHS. Ball did not go past 1st base. Simple as that. Don't understand the confusion.

The confusion is simple it's unclear from the rulebook itself what the definition of past first base is. Does a ball which hits second pass 1st base? That depends on which direction you're facing. [Yes, I know it's fair anyway.]
________
Switzel live

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Tex

The ball can touch in right field, spin back toward 1st base, and go over the foul line between home and 1st base. All of this without being touched. The result is a foul ball.

This is not true. If the ball first lands beyond first base, and subsequently rolls untouched into foul territory, it will be a fair ball.

[wadeintothem]

Holy "way-to-complicate-something-very-simple, batman."

In ASA and NFHS (and likely every other league, including the yemini slayer of the infidel softball federation) I have a foul ball. The rules are the same. If some individual state rule interpreter is messing up the rule for NFHS in your state, thats for your state only.

This is a foul ball. Simple.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Holy "way-to-complicate-something-very-simple, batman."

In ASA and NFHS (and likely every other league, including the yemini slayer of the infidel softball federation) I have a foul ball. The rules are the same. If some individual state rule interpreter is messing up the rule for NFHS in your state, thats for your state only.

Apparently not since more than one person, not from the same state has received the same interp. And, BTW, I first heard it in a clinic well more than a dozen years ago.