Jericho Scott

[SC Ump]

League president definitely had a conflict of interest. Decision should have been made 1. earlier, 2. more equitable and 3. by someone else.

1. why make this kind of decision when championships are on the line.
2. could have been as other mentioned, severely limit number of innings pitch for ALL pitchers.
3. definitely should have had a third party make this decision.

Not sure where I stand on the decision, seems unfair but can understand. Either way, it appears improperly motivated.

I'm still hoping we can find a way to get parents out of youth rec ball.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Been there, done that and it stinks.

However, what do you think once you take away all the parental/political BS?

I think you were talking to me, if not I'll answer it anyway If I was on the board I would have asked what the reason was for asking for that kid to be removed from the pitching position.
1) How many kids has he hurt?---None
2) How many kids has he hit with a pitch?---None (from what I have read)
3) So what is your complaint? ---We can't beat them when he pitches.(or something along the same lines)

My answer to the above would have been, get your kids in the batting cages and work them on hitting fast pitching. As a rec league board member I have no reason to support the decision to ask him not to pitch. You only get better by facing better players, and to water down the league (remove star players) so that everyone is about the same level is not doing anyone any good. That is a big issue I have seen in my experience in rec league. Few coachs want to work very hard, or teach very hard. They want the teams all even so that they can say "look at billy, do what he does" instead of honest to goodness teaching kids the basics. Not sure if it is lazy, or they don't know, or can't teach but I have seen it a lot. And anytime there is a team that has a star pitcher the other teams are at a loss. Step up, get an adult that can pitch and have them throw the same speed, crank up the pitching machine, whatever it takes teach the kids to raise themselves to the level they need to in order to compete. And bottom line if you can't beat that team there is a life lesson, some people have more ability than you....learn it early it will save you a lot of pain later in life!! Some people are smarter, "see" things better and will always rank above you in certain things. Hard work can get you closer, and maybe even past them if you keep working hard....life is not fair and sometimes you lose. An important life lesson that is more important that knowing how to hit a ball...to me rec league ball is just as much about teaching life lessons as it is teaching them to play ball. And this example is a bad one to teach kids...if you can't beat 'em get 'em kicked out! (I know he wasn't kicked out just removed from pitching, didn't flow as good in the statement)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

I think you were talking to me, if not I'll answer it anyway If I was on the board I would have asked what the reason was for asking for that kid to be removed from the pitching position.
1) How many kids has he hurt?---None
2) How many kids has he hit with a pitch?---None (from what I have read)
3) So what is your complaint? ---We can't beat them when he pitches.(or something along the same lines)

If you were on the board, why did you let him join the team in midseason to begin? Why would you allow a player already participating at a higher level, play down on his nights off from his real team?

My answer to the above would have been, get your kids in the batting cages and work them on hitting fast pitching. As a rec league board member I have no reason to support the decision to ask him not to pitch. You only get better by facing better players, and to water down the league (remove star players) so that everyone is about the same level is not doing anyone any good.

Maybe you have missed the point that this is solely a developmental league, not supposed to be a competitive league though obviously some coaches believe it is. In a developmental league, from youth ball to professional ball, the "all stars" are quickly removed and placed at a higher level because there is no challenge for that player to face.

That is a big issue I have seen in my experience in rec league. Few coachs want to work very hard, or teach very hard. They want the teams all even so that they can say "look at billy, do what he does" instead of honest to goodness teaching kids the basics. Not sure if it is lazy, or they don't know, or can't teach but I have seen it a lot. And anytime there is a team that has a star pitcher the other teams are at a loss. Step up, get an adult that can pitch and have them throw the same speed, crank up the pitching machine, whatever it takes teach the kids to raise themselves to the level they need to in order to compete.

Exactly and when they can compete, the move up. As previously noted, this kid is already UP and moved down assumedly to satisfy the egos of his coach and parents.

And bottom line if you can't beat that team there is a life lesson, some people have more ability than you....learn it early it will save you a lot of pain later in life!! Some people are smarter, "see" things better and will always rank above you in certain things. Hard work can get you closer, and maybe even past them if you keep working hard....life is not fair and sometimes you lose. An important life lesson that is more important that knowing how to hit a ball...to me rec league ball is just as much about teaching life lessons as it is teaching them to play ball. And this example is a bad one to teach kids...if you can't beat 'em get 'em kicked out! (I know he wasn't kicked out just removed from pitching, didn't flow as good in the statement)

Thank you for proving my position. One of the "life lessons" that should be instilled in the youngster is to improve to move, get better and look for the challenge that will take you to the next step. It shouldn't be, "I'm not good enough to beat the players that challenge me, so I'll go beat up on the kids I know are beneath my level of play". In my neighborhood, someone who did that was considered a bully. In sports, it is known as sandbagging. And in amateur sports, sandbagging is considered such an offensive maneuver, every organization of which I am aware maintains certain levels of classification based upon age, class and/or ability/desire to compete.

Take your pick, but either way, this kid's parents and coach should be taken to task as much as the champion coach which tried to recruit him.

[DaveASA/FED]

Well I obviously missed part of the story. I didn't get the part where he came into the league part way through the season, no I would not have supported that move. I did see that he was playing in another league, but guess I never saw where it was a "better skilled" league, so I missed the fact that paraphrasing your words "he was playing down".

Bottom line all this stuff should have been covered by the league prior to this kid playing, if the coach/board member knew enough to want him to play then he should have known that he was "overly skilled" to even play in that league, so he should have been stopped from entering the league in the first place if his skills were that far above the level of the other players, and the league wishes were to keep skills even so nobodys feelings got hurt. Once you accept a kid into your league IMO as long as there isn't a safety concern, and I mean one like he has no control and has hit XX number of batters, sent X to the hospital, fractured X number of helmets...(just kidding, but some sort of ligitimate concern, not just he throws fast) then you live with the kid till the end of the season.

Again if you are correct and this kid was a ringer pulled down to this little rec league to bring someone a championship that is wrong, just as wrong as a league official trying to get him not to be able to pitch just because he wants his team to win. I'm not taking sides, just commenting that IMO you can't pull a kid because he is too good and he is beating your team.

And about a kid playing rec league when he/she also plays travel ball, in my years I have seen it several times. Mom and Dad have the time and money to take them to travel, but they still play with their friends in rec league, keeping up that team feeling for when they all play high school ball together. It has worked on most occasions in our league without issue I know we have never made the news over it anyway!!

[Dakota]

Bottom line is the guy in charge got the ringer he wanted on his team snatched out from under him and onto another team, and he is now bound and determined that no one is going to be a better cheat than he was trying to be.

IOW, while neither side seems to have clean hands here, I'm siding with the Scott kid's team, since at least they did not engaging in an abuse of power. If they can go to court and prevail, go ahead, I say.

IOW, there are plenty of bad-acting adults in this story, but the worst of the lot is the coach using his position as league official to disqualify another team's star player - a star player that he, himself, tried to recruit.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

IOW, while neither side seems to have clean hands here, I'm siding with the Scott kid's team, since at least they did not engaging in an abuse of power.

Really? What do you call a coach bringing in a player he knows is a level above the league? You think he didn't do this to win the league championship? If so, there is this bridge in Brooklyn......

If they can go to court and prevail, go ahead, I say.

And what is that going to do besides waste time and money? As previously stated, what good does it do the community if the league folds because some coach who just has to get a trophy off this kid's arm? Any judge in his/her right mind wouldn't consider allowing this on the docket. Then again, we are talking about people who don't need a God rule because they believe they are God.

[Dakota]

Both coaches tried to bring in the kid to play for their team. Only one used his position on the league board to try to get the kid banned ONLY when he was not successful in getting him on HIS team.

If the league has the fix in on player eligibility based on which team the stars play for, the league should fold.

[IRISHMAFIA]

What part of "developmental" is so hard to understand? Why do adults think it is so damn important to win something at all costs? And if you don't win, sue. All the adults involved in this should step aside or be dismissed from the league. Obviously, they are the culprits here.

I started umpiring in a league which had it's "minor" leagues where all officiating was a parent or older kid. No arguments. During a game, if a kid did something wrong, it was corrected on the spot. Kids who develop ahead of others, moved up to the "majors" or big team regardless of age. Kids are not going to learn to hit by being overpowered by a kid with a helluva arm. And note, it wasn't only one kid or one team that couldn't hit this kid, it was the entire league. Obviously, it was well known that this kid was an extraordinary pitcher as he had already left the developmental league and moved up.

That should be the end of the story, but we all know it is not.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Why do adults think it is so damn important to win something at all costs? And if you don't win, sue.

Isn't it funny that we are making the same point just on different sides of the arguement? You are saying that team B coach is wrong for having the kid pitch, we are saying that team A coach/board member is wrong for having him removed from pitching. You are saying that the parents are wrong for sueing....we are saying that the coach is wrong for "sueing" (in effect taking legal action goverened by the board to have the player removed from pitching) Personally I hate the sue happy world we have become, but IMO the kid should be able to pitch, and if the board will not reverse their decision then the only other recourse is to take it into the legal system.

[Dakota]

I'm not so sure the kid should have been allowed to pitch in the first place, given the level and objectives of the league. However, I am sure (as sure as I can be from media reports - which, in fact, is not all THAT sure...) that the league board is not operating in good faith here and the decision to have the kid play is a done deal, and all parties to this controversy DID want the kid to play... just for different teams. Therefore the claim NOW that he should not play in the league is an illegitimate claim and is only being enforced through a power play by a person with a conflict of interest.

If the only remedy for this is the courts, so be it.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

Last year my younger daughter, 9 at the time, was playing in the local rec league 10U division. One of the other teams had a pitcher who could throw in the mid to high 40's already, and had good control (I don't think she ever hit anyone). The other team normally only pitched her one, maybe two innings, sometimes none. Most of the batters either swang way late, or didn't swing at all. A lot jumped out of the box. No other team had a pitcher in that class, either the speed or the control.

Would we have told this girl she couldn't pitch? No. Did we think the coaches showed class by not thowing her every inning?! You betcha. (League rules this year prohibit a pitcher from throwing more than 2 innings in 10U so that you have to have more to your team than one awesome pitcher.)

This pitcher played 12U in a different league this year and did pretty well. You may have seen her. She pitched 9 of ten innings to win the semi-final game in the LLWS in Portland.

Most of the batters either swang way late...

Dizzy Dean is alive and well, and posting on this forum.

Bob