Foul Tip Situation

[scroobs]

Anyone ever have this situation happen to them? 2-2 count on the batter. I'm behind the plate. Pitch is fouled of and is judged by me to be straight back and caught by the catcher, who came right up with her glove to show me a clean catch. I rule it a foul tip and call the batter out. 3rd base coach complains and asks me to ask my partner for help. My first thought was that I already had help from my partner because he never killed it. I look at my partner as the coach is still complaining, moving towards me from the coaches box. My partner is looking at me with his fist out. After I settle the coach down and get him back in the box, I decide to stay with my call. after the inning is over, I ask my partner if he saw a foul ball and he said he did see the ball hit the ground. Kinda felt I was thrown under the bus on this play. To make a long story short, would you have went to your partner after this chain of events, or would you stick with your call like I did?

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by scroobs

Anyone ever have this situation happen to them? 2-2 count on the batter. I'm behind the plate. Pitch is fouled of and is judged by me to be straight back and caught by the catcher, who came right up with her glove to show me a clean catch. I rule it a foul tip and call the batter out. 3rd base coach complains and asks me to ask my partner for help. My first thought was that I already had help from my partner because he never killed it. I look at my partner as the coach is still complaining, moving towards me from the coaches box. My partner is looking at me with his fist out. After I settle the coach down and get him back in the box, I decide to stay with my call. after the inning is over, I ask my partner if he saw a foul ball and he said he did see the ball hit the ground. Kinda felt I was thrown under the bus on this play. To make a long story short, would you have went to your partner after this chain of events, or would you stick with your call like I did?

When my partner indicated a caught tipped ball for the thrd strike using the closed fist mechanic, I'm staying with my out call.

If a conversation with the OC developed wanting me to seek help from my partner, I would decline the request and explain that had my partner seen it pitch as a foul ball s/he would have indicated so immediately.

Between innings after any controversial call is not the time to meet with your partner to discuss the play. Wait a couple of innings or until your post game chat.

[Scooby]

NCAA has mechanics for this situation. Point to the ground if the ball is in the dirt and a fist by his side if it is a foul tip. Outside the NCAA I would go to my partner for help. This is a play that the Home plate umpire cannot see...you call this on what you hear and how the players react...why not go for help unless the OC is being a jerk.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by Scooby

why not go for help unless the OC is being a jerk.

You stated in the OP that your partner was looking at you with his closed fist held out. That mechanic would indicate to me that the pitch was a caught tipped ball for strike three and I would have all the information I needed to confirm my out call.

[scroobs]

It was a delayed fist signal that I got from my umpire. almost like he was questioning whether I had a catch or not. It was like it came after the coach started complaining. Does anyone just verbalize the foul ball at that point to avoid confusion? I usually verbalize the foul ball as a base ump but maybe I'm wrong for doing so... I will use the fist, or point to the ground on plays that are routine. This became a mess as you can tell from the above post and because the coach was such a nice guy and the confusing communication from my partner, I just stuck with the call.

[7in60]

Originally Posted by scroobs

It was a delayed fist signal that I got from my umpire. almost like he was questioning whether I had a catch or not. It was like it came after the coach started complaining. Does anyone just verbalize the foul ball at that point to avoid confusion? I usually verbalize the foul ball as a base ump but maybe I'm wrong for doing so... I will use the fist, or point to the ground on plays that are routine. This became a mess as you can tell from the above post and because the coach was such a nice guy and the confusing communication from my partner, I just stuck with the call.

I would. PU obviously didn't see the foul. I would call "FOUL BALL" (I like the point down mechanic) and on we go.

[canump]

Originally Posted by scroobs

Anyone ever have this situation happen to them? 2-2 count on the batter. I'm behind the plate. Pitch is fouled of and is judged by me to be straight back and caught by the catcher, who came right up with her glove to show me a clean catch. I rule it a foul tip and call the batter out. 3rd base coach complains and asks me to ask my partner for help. My first thought was that I already had help from my partner because he never killed it. I look at my partner as the coach is still complaining, moving towards me from the coaches box. My partner is looking at me with his fist out. After I settle the coach down and get him back in the box, I decide to stay with my call. after the inning is over, I ask my partner if he saw a foul ball and he said he did see the ball hit the ground. Kinda felt I was thrown under the bus on this play. To make a long story short, would you have went to your partner after this chain of events, or would you stick with your call like I did?

To me you called it right as you judged it to be. When the coach questioned you on it you glanced at your partner, saw the closed fist and stuck with your call, I think we all would have done the same. Maybe your partner didn't realize what he was doing, maybe he had a soar hand and was just flexing at the time you looked, maybe, maybe he wasn't paying attention. If he saw the ball hit dirt and heard or saw the coach questioning you on it and saw you looking at him for possible help thennnnnnn.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by scroobs

Anyone ever have this situation happen to them? 2-2 count on the batter. I'm behind the plate. Pitch is fouled of and is judged by me to be straight back and caught by the catcher, who came right up with her glove to show me a clean catch. I rule it a foul tip and call the batter out. 3rd base coach complains and asks me to ask my partner for help. My first thought was that I already had help from my partner because he never killed it. I look at my partner as the coach is still complaining, moving towards me from the coaches box. My partner is looking at me with his fist out. After I settle the coach down and get him back in the box, I decide to stay with my call. after the inning is over, I ask my partner if he saw a foul ball and he said he did see the ball hit the ground. Kinda felt I was thrown under the bus on this play. To make a long story short, would you have went to your partner after this chain of events, or would you stick with your call like I did?

Normally, I would have had no problem going to my partner. However, seeing what you saw from your partner, I can understand your stance.

I guess it would be different with all of us depending upon how much experience and how comfortable we are with our partner at the time. If my partner was someone which whom I do not work with often, I may go for help anyway. I don't like looking up at the undercarraige of a large public transportation vehicle.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Normally, I would have had no problem going to my partner. However, seeing what you saw from your partner, I can understand your stance.

I guess it would be different with all of us depending upon how much experience and how comfortable we are with our partner at the time. If my partner was someone which whom I do not work with often, I may go for help anyway. I don't like looking up at the undercarraige of a large public transportation vehicle.

Speaking of knowing your partner.

During the Nationals, working with different partners every day, you find that
a lot are not aware of different signals, ump to ump. Several times with
timing plays being involved, tapped my wrist [watch in pocket]. Once my
partner called time and reminded me these were not timed games. Geeze

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

During the Nationals, working with different partners every day...

That's most of my season. I don't rely on the indiscreet signals of close-fist or pointing to the ground. Nor the "if I tap my cap I need to know the count." If I think I've lost the count, I yell, "Bob, I've got x and x. Is that what you have?" If a coach asked me to get help, I will first make sure I know what he's asking. In this case I would then yell, "Bob, did the ball hit the ground?"

Of course I'd make slight adjustments if my partner was not Bob.