Little Ball Indecision

NDblue · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 09:43am

It's live and in play until when? Not at any softball field I know of but in baseball, there are some fences/walls that would be out of reach for a player to get to if said ball were perched on top. Then what?

Dholloway1962 · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 09:51am

I'm going with the ground rule double...same as ball lodging in fence.

IRISHMAFIA · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 09:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDblue

It's live and in play until when? Not at any softball field I know of but in baseball, there are some fences/walls that would be out of reach for a player to get to if said ball were perched on top. Then what?

To me, a ball is live until it becomes dead by rule.

What do you have in this play? Obviously, the players could have reached the ball. Even if the ball would be out of reach, why penalize the offense because the defence missed an opportunity to make the play?

3SPORT · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 10:23am

The only way this should be a live ball is if there is no way it can become dead. By being able to be knocked off the ledge and go dead then you will have the same effect as a ground rule double or being stuck in a fence.

NDblue · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 10:41am

Perched on top of a fence/wall, I'd almost have to rule it a home run. As was stated earlier, if it's on top of the fence it has broken the plane of the front edge of the fence. Isn't that by definition a home run?

NCASAUmp · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 11:09am

If the ball hits the top of the fence untouched, then goes over, it's a home run. In this case, if the ball is touched, rests on the fence, then goes over, it's a 4 base award, and doesn't count against the maximum number of home runs hit by that team.

This case would be a live ball. If the players can't knock it down, I've got a blocked ball (it would be no different if the ball were stuck at the bottom of the fence or a hole in the middle of the fence). If players knock it down and it falls into playable territory, the ball's still live. If players knock it down, and it falls behind the fence into dead ball territory, I've got a 4 base award (if it was touched by a fielder) or a home run (if it was never touched by a fielder).

Dholloway1962 · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 12:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

If the players can't knock it down, I've got a blocked ball (it would be no different if the ball were stuck at the bottom of the fence or a hole in the middle of the fence). If players knock it down and it falls into playable territory, the ball's still live. If players knock it down, and it falls behind the fence into dead ball territory, I've got a 4 base award (if it was touched by a fielder) or a home run (if it was never touched by a fielder).

IMO, it doesn't matter if they can knock it down or not. Once it rests on the fence it is a blocked ball and ground rule double. By your statement are we going to make the players try to knock it down? Once it rests, fielders raises arms end of play, 2 base award.

NCASAUmp · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

IMO, it doesn't matter if they can knock it down or not. Once it rests on the fence it is a blocked ball and ground rule double. By your statement are we going to make the players try to knock it down? Once it rests, fielders raises arms end of play, 2 base award.

Well, if a fielder raises his/her arms, I'll call the blocked ball. If they jump and miss the ball, then I'll call the blocked ball. But if it's within easy reach and there's no danger to the player, I'm not calling a blocked ball.

NCASAUmp · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 01:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDblue

Perched on top of a fence/wall, I'd almost have to rule it a home run. As was stated earlier, if it's on top of the fence it has broken the plane of the front edge of the fence. Isn't that by definition a home run?

One other thing... If a ball were to break the plane of the front edge of the fence as you described, but the fielder reached over the fence and caught it before it came into contact with dead ball territory, would you still rule it a home run?

NDblue · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 02:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

One other thing... If a ball were to break the plane of the front edge of the fence as you described, but the fielder reached over the fence and caught it before it came into contact with dead ball territory, would you still rule it a home run?

You're not comparing the same thing. If the ball is still in flight, then there's no way it can be perched on the top of a fence is there?

NCASAUmp · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 05, 2008, 04:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDblue

You're not comparing the same thing. If the ball is still in flight, then there's no way it can be perched on the top of a fence is there?

What I'm getting at is that there is no "plane" as you described. If it touches an object behind the fence (such as a pole or tree), that's one thing. However, just because it goes beyond the "plane" of the fence does not make the ball unplayable. A fielder could still jump, catch the ball beyond the "plane," and bring it down for an out if the ball was never touched by anything else.

Just trying to keep you away from focusing on something that doesn't exist in ASA.

MichaelVA2000 · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2008, 04:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDblue

Perched on top of a fence/wall, I'd almost have to rule it a home run. As was stated earlier, if it's on top of the fence it has broken the plane of the front edge of the fence. Isn't that by definition a home run?

No. Not any different than if the ball had hit the top of the fence and bounced directly back onto the field of play. Live ball, play on. Had the ball hit the top of the fence and then bounced over, it would have been a four base award.

NCASAUmp · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2008, 06:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

No. Not any different than if the ball had hit the top of the fence and bounced directly back onto the field of play. Live ball, play on. Had the ball hit the top of the fence and then bounced over, it would have been a four base award.

...if it had been touched by a fielder. If it bounces off the top of the fence and goes over, untouched by a fielder, it's a home run.

I'm hoping that's what you meant.

MichaelVA2000 · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 07, 2008, 03:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

...if it had been touched by a fielder. If it bounces off the top of the fence and goes over, untouched by a fielder, it's a home run.

I'm hoping that's what you meant.

Yeppers...I omitted the fielder touching the ball.

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