Trash Talking Goes Too Far

[greymule]

seriously bitten in the face

It used to be that anybody who bit during a fight was considered the lowest of the low. Same with using a bat knob or hitting someone from behind, or doing anything else not part of a "fair fight." Not any more. A couple of years ago, in the "shake-hand" line after a men's SP game (surprise, surprise!), one guy, after his opponent had passed him in the line, reached back, grabbed the guy by the back of the neck, and slammed his face down into home plate. The next day the police had the field cordoned off with tape as a "crime scene," but it was all show; no charges were brought.

We've had so many violent and quasi-violent incidents that it's only a matter of time before somebody gets brain damaged. Not long ago, we even had a military-style raid of the field by Crips seeking revenge for the supposed "dissing" of one of their members by players. The police brought dogs to the field the next night, but no arrests were ever made, even though there were many witnesses to the assault.

Last year, in a 40-and-over SP league, a player, for an attack on a teammate, got himself banned indefinitely from attending any games (by a judge, not some league official).

[NCASAUmp]

Actually, if I remember correctly, the Wisconsin law had harsher penalties for assault upon a sports official. I believe it was a 10 year felony sentence.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Actually, if I remember correctly, the Wisconsin law had harsher penalties for assault upon a sports official. I believe it was a 10 year felony sentence.

That does nothing to change my view. I oppose such class-, gender-, position-based laws. Doesn't equal protection under the law mean anything anymore?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

That does nothing to change my view. I oppose such class-, gender-, position-based laws. Doesn't equal protection under the law mean anything anymore?

Never has, and never will.

I agree that there are laws that create disparity among the people based off of class, gender, etc. Most of the time, these laws are merely political stunts to appear to be "taking a stand."

[greymule]

I oppose such class-, gender-, position-based laws.

So do I. Take a look at Europe and Canada to see where such laws, as well as laws governing "hate speech" (i.e., any stated disagreement with someone in a protected group) lead.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by Dakota

That does nothing to change my view. I oppose such class-, gender-, position-based laws. Doesn't equal protection under the law mean anything anymore?

I wish that everyone lived under equal protection under the law, but there are some Americans who don't. I agree that some of the laws are silly but others are a step in the right direction.

Some people may consider the drug sentencing laws around cocaine to be "race" influenced. We do seem to go a bit easier on the mommy's from the suburbs then the people who use cocaine in it's non powered form.

Some people may consider stealing people's investments/pensions the same as robbing a bank,without a weapon, to be the same but we seem to go a wee bit easier on the suit and tie thieves.

We have seen rich private citizens get to take the property of not so rich private citizens-all for the greater good, of course and with the force and might of the Gov't...so the losers of their property may not feel equally protected....

Some people have gooten kicked out of the military because of who they sleep with....And if one is concerned about someone else's sexual habits those that make you a sex addict ?....They might not feel equally protected.

In a perfect country we all would have the same equal protection but alas we're not perfect......

[Dakota]

Nice screed, but how does that justify continued political padering through boutique "there oughta be a law" laws?

Equal protection under the law is a political principle stated in the constitution. Because it is not perfectly applied (or because some people invent unequal protection when none exists to forward their agenda) does not mean it should be tossed into the dust bin through class-based laws whose real purpose is to pander for votes, not address any actual criminal problem.

[NCASAUmp]

This thread is going down a dangerous path. Bringing it back here...

The players are certainly escalating their behavior, year after year. I'm very fortunate that one of the municipalities where I call games deals with this issue swiftly and appropriately. The other municipality does not, so I've asked my assignor to not assign me to those locations until the problem is fixed. More and more of our crew is following suit, so it's only a matter of time before the problem is fixed.

We refuse to be punching bags.

[greymule]

This thread is going down a dangerous path.

I agree. I'm going to delete my last post.

In terms of the violence and the abuse of officials, the townships around here always start the year spouting something about zero tolerance, but the problems don't go away. This is why so many umps will not do the "men," SP or even modified. Back around 2004, after several years of umpiring a modified league without particular incident, I had a guy physically threaten me and, after I tossed him, promise to be in the parking lot when I got there. (He didn't show up.) In the game that followed, a batter threw his bat violently (immediate ejection, of course) after he looked at a third strike, and then screamed obscenities at me until his vocabulary ran out.

The league gave each player the standard 2-week suspension for an ejection, but I refused to return, arguing that for their over-the-top behavior, those players should have been suspended for at least the rest of the season. I don't miss doing that league.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by greymule

This thread is going down a dangerous path.

I agree. I'm going to delete my last post.

In terms of the violence and the abuse of officials, the townships around here always start the year spouting something about zero tolerance, but the problems don't go away. This is why so many umps will not do the "men," SP or even modified. Back around 2004, after several years of umpiring a modified league without particular incident, I had a guy physically threaten me and, after I tossed him, promise to be in the parking lot when I got there. (He didn't show up.) In the game that followed, a batter threw his bat violently (immediate ejection, of course) after he looked at a third strike, and then screamed obscenities at me until his vocabulary ran out.

The league gave each player the standard 2-week suspension for an ejection, but I refused to return, arguing that for their over-the-top behavior, those players should have been suspended for at least the rest of the season. I don't miss doing that league.

Well, I'm a firm believer in giving someone a second chance. Sometimes, these guys don't realize how bad they are until the consequences catch up with them. Other times, these guys never learn.

I had tossed one guy after arguing a judgment call too much, then making it a personal issue (I don't remember what was said, but it wasn't pleasant). After getting tossed, he unleashed a flurry of profanities in my direction, and he continued to do so all the way to the parking lot. The league organizer gave him a one-game suspension.

It was at that point that I told my assignor that I wouldn't do any league games for that municipality anymore. I continued to do the church league games for a year, but decided I'd had enough of that, too.

The remarkable thing is that the other municipality shares a large border with the first municipality, yet the atmosphere is completely different. There, the players know that the town will not tolerate any crap, period. The tone of those games has improved dramatically since then.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

This thread is going down a dangerous path. ....

I didn't see the post that greymule deleted, but apart from that, I don't understand how discussing politics, the constitution, and the law, especially as it relates to assault and assault of an official, is a "dangerous path." Unless you are posting from Zimbabwe.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I didn't see the post that greymule deleted, but apart from that, I don't understand how discussing politics, the constitution, and the law, especially as it relates to assault and assault of an official, is a "dangerous path." Unless you are posting from Zimbabwe.

Nah. Yemen.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I didn't see the post that greymule deleted, but apart from that, I don't understand how discussing politics, the constitution, and the law, especially as it relates to assault and assault of an official, is a "dangerous path." Unless you are posting from Zimbabwe.

I was thinking the same thing, except for the Zimbabwe part.

[bigsig]

I stopped doing the “testosterone” leagues about 3 years ago. Even though I’m in an area with the highest per game fees in the country I am fortune enough to umpire as a hobby. I do it because I enjoy it. But I stopped enjoying men’s slow pitch.

Going out to do a doubleheader at 8 PM and getting home close to midnight. Hearing asinine arguments on EVERY call from players who have no clue what the rules are. That’s just not fun to me.

If these leagues don’t get their acts together soon they won’t have any umpires, or at least one’s with experience. Here we are at the point where most of the games are officiated by rookie umpires because no one else will do them.

Now the teams get umpires with little experience, reducing the quality of officiating, and our umpire association has a lot more turnover of new umpires then we should. No one wins.

[Stat-Man]

I feel fortunate the the teams in our 30-over co-ed leaue are mostly civil with each other. We did have some issues with the #1 team trash talking and whining a bit, but we know the best way to handle that is to beat them should we get a chance to face them again in the playoffs

I'll also go on record to say I don't like the feel good laws either (regarding hate crimes and other similar offenses). If someone decided to premeditate violence, the act itself should be what gets the severe punishment and not who or why. JMO, though.