Coach: Warning or ejection?

[7in60]

This is my fourth year umpiring softball. The reason I got into it was because a local women's fast pitch league needed an umpire. The other umpires I work with are not carded and do not wear proper uniforms. I've taken a lot of crap from the coach of one team. Mostly questioning calls by yelling from 3B or the bench. I have let it go because the head ump never said anything and I figured that's how things go in a local league. This forum has opened my eyes to the fact that it's up to me what is and isn't ok on the field, no matter where I am. Thank you all for that.

I will preface tonight's episode by discussing bunting. This league has a strategy where to advance the runner, the batter will square to bunt and take the pitch, with the runner going. In the past I have called that a strike with no complaints, but after discussing it with another carded umpire last season my take is that it is a legal batting stance to square to bunt with the bat over the plate, and an attempt is not made at the pitch unless the bat moves.

So tonight one of his batters squares to bunt,holding the bat high. The pitch is above her belt, and she lifts the bat. I call "yes, she did" and signal a strike. She steps out, quietly says "no I didn't", and drops an f-bomb under her breath. She was discreet so I didn't have an issue with it. The coach, who is at third, says "can I appeal that, blue?" I shook my head. He replied "watch it, then!" This is typical of the stuff he's done in the past. After the exchange I was upset because I felt like he asked me a question just as a set up to take a shot at me. Once the play began I figured it was too late to do anything. What's is the action here?

A second issue was that the game started 4 minutes late at 9:04 because one team had some players show up late. There is a 10-minute grace period which cuts into the game time, i.e. no new inning after 10:45pm, regardless of start time. I called last inning at 10:35 going intop the 6th. After his team batted in the top of the 6th he called me over and told me that if they got 3 up 3 down that he would argue because we hadn't played 1:45. It was a tie game, his team is visiting. We finished right about the 1:45 mark with his team down by a run at 10:49. Is the grace period standard? Does he have an argument here? I asked a veteran pitcher from the early game and she confirmed that my ruling was correct, but until I see it on paper, I'll settle for the consensus here.

[snorman75]

For me they are gone on any f-bomb. You let is slide the first time it only gets worst.

Bunt, good call I know if they blink with the bat in the zone bunting I might call it. I making a little joke.
As for the coach setting you up with the "Watch it, then" I would not even miss a beat with something like, " thanks coach, I did and that is why I did not need help."

As for the time. Most leagues include any kind of grace period as part of the given time. Just make sure you did not start late because of you. I have seen a ump pull that time rule, when he was taking a piss that made it start late.

Never say last inning until you are at or over the time. What happens if the inning gets done before th time you have. Which ever team that is winning is going say you said last inning. The losing team is going to say time is still not up. The easiest thing to do is just let them know how much time they have left. The only person I tell when we started is my part, everyone else gets the count down. Be it 1 hour 23 min left or 3 min left. This lets them know right off the back that the grace period was used as part of their game time.

[7in60]

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm up late doing some work for tomorrow and was hoping for a reply before I turn in.

If the game starts late because of me, of course we play 1:45. One team had 6 players at 8:55, and the last few came together right around 9.

Do you call a strike on any bunt attempt where there is bat motion, unless the motion is to pull it back? I clearly saw her move the bat upwards, even though it was above the ball.

I like your idea of firing back at the coach. I need to do something so I don't feel like I'm getting railroaded by this guy. He is a strong personality who I should probably take with a grain of salt.

Point taken re: last inning. Last Monday I told two slow pitch teams "it could be the last inning" in a similar situation (5 run limit, unlimited runs in the last inning). One player was adamant that I declare last inning, or not, right there. I explained that if the offensive team got to 5 runs, I would decide whether it would be unlimited or not (it would have been, due to time). He couldn't comprehend that, even with a teammate trying to explain. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[wadeintothem]

Sounds to me like that IS "how things go" in your local league. With you description, ie its common, no certified umps, etc I doubt you will receive any semblance of support if you needed it. Our local beer league is very much the same way, which is why I no longer work it.

Dont take too much BS unless you want to.

Be ready to walk when/if you find out you are expected to take their BS.

[NCASAUmp]

To be honest, if a coach smarts off with me, I'm not going to stoop to his level, especially if I'm doing kids' games. Doing so can, if done the wrong way, actually do more harm than good. Quick remarks set a poor example for kids, and if the coach has a history of doing this, he's probably heard it all - and probably has a comeback for every quip you toss his way.

If a coach gets mouthy with me like he did in your game, I just calmly call time, step back from behind the catcher and say, "coach we're not going to have any of that tonight." If possible, you can also wait until you're between half-innings, pull the coach aside, take off your sunglasses, and have a quiet chat with him along the same lines. Bottom line is that judgment calls are completely off-limits to him, and there should be no more direct or indirect disputing of those calls. If he wants to talk rule interpretations, fine. Anything else, sorry, that's how it is.

As for the time limit, I don't announce "last inning" or "probably last inning." I simply announce the time. "10 minutes left! 10 minutes!" It's a statement of simple fact. Let them decide if it's going to be the last inning. If you tell them it's the last inning with 10 minutes left, what happens if both sides go 3 up, 3 down? Now you've got 4 minutes left. I guarantee the losing team will have a fit if you kill the game, or the winning team will flip if you play another inning beyond.

[Steve M]

I'm not getting into exchanges with coaches, either. I'll say something to the effect of "That's enough on judgement, coach." A wise coach will recognize that as a warning - for the rest of the game.
For timed games, I'll let them know that we're under 10 minutes - and not get specific unless somebody asks.

[SRW]

We penalize the casual profanity with a local rule that basically says the following:

If it's loud enough for more than the player and the umpire to hear, that batter is out. If it's not the batter who said it, the next batter is out. Even on defense - if the defender utters the F-Bomb, then their first batter the next half-inning is an out.

It's self policing. And it works pretty well. I started one inning with two outs - the first two batters scheduled to bat were pis$ed off at the idiot on their team who kept swearing because he caused them to miss their at-bat.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by SRW

We penalize the casual profanity with a local rule that basically says the following:

If it's loud enough for more than the player and the umpire to hear, that batter is out. If it's not the batter who said it, the next batter is out. Even on defense - if the defender utters the F-Bomb, then their first batter the next half-inning is an out.

It's self policing. And it works pretty well. I started one inning with two outs - the first two batters scheduled to bat were pis$ed off at the idiot on their team who kept swearing because he caused them to miss their at-bat.

I don't know if we should institute that policy in Modified here. We just had a fight break out in the dugout last night because someone kept dropping the F-bomb, and some players had kids in the stands next to the dugout. One player even allegedly hit another player with a bat. Wasn't hard enough to do any damage, but the umpire, seeing almost the entire team coming to blows, ejected enough troublemakers to end the game in a forfeit.

[7in60]

This will be my last year working for the league. It's convenient because the diamond is 2.5km from my house, and the others are ~50 km away, but I'm more serious about the job than the others, so they can have their fun and I will hone my skills working with certified umpires. There is a shortage of umpires in Canada and I will have no trouble finding other assignments.

Next time I will call time and let him know I won't have any more. It happened late in the game so I was caught off guard.

[7in60]

I should add that, of course, the batter hit one down the third baseline for a double. Like it usually plays out, all of the nonsense was for nothing.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by 7in60

Next time I will call time and let him know I won't have any more. It happened late in the game so I was caught off guard.

As former MLB umpire Jim Evans says: Surprise is an umpire's worse enemy.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by 7in60

This will be my last year working for the league. It's convenient because the diamond is 2.5km from my house, and the others are ~50 km away, but I'm more serious about the job than the others, so they can have their fun and I will hone my skills working with certified umpires. There is a shortage of umpires in Canada and I will have no trouble finding other assignments.

Next time I will call time and let him know I won't have any more. It happened late in the game so I was caught off guard.

Good on you!

When I quit, I quit immediately. I Sent an email stating my reasons why. The people were horrible, it was like woodstock with the smell of Pot (I was umpiring with my shirt over my nose it was so bad), there was too much drinking, horrible arguing over simple rules that they did not believe in, etc etc etc, it was a nightmare.

I am also in the same boat in that my local beer league is close, my tourney ball is many many km's away. I dont regret leaving one bit.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by 7in60

Do you call a strike on any bunt attempt where there is bat motion, unless the motion is to pull it back? I clearly saw her move the bat upwards, even though it was above the ball.

Movement of the bat does not necessarily consitute a stike. If the batter made an attempt to strike the ball, it is a strike. If the batter moved the bat away from the ball or just left it in place without moving it and without trying to strike the ball, then it is not a strike. It is that fact, whether you felt the batter was trying to strike the ball, that determines what should be called.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

... it was like woodstock with the smell of Pot...

...there was too much drinking...

Can you get the pot heads to mellow out the drinkers? Perhaps share their Doritos with them?