Whoops!

[SRW]

Originally Posted by 3afan

there is a mechanic just for this case that the BU should use ...

if the 3rd strike pitch is not caught the BU should point to the ground to let the PU know, if it is caught simply make a fist to show it was caught - its not a signal, just signs to your partner

use of these would have prevented the situation

Would you please point me to the page in either the ASA Umpire Manual or the NFHS Umpire Manual that shows or states that this is an approved mechanic or signal?

[3afan]

Originally Posted by SRW

Would you please point me to the page in either the ASA Umpire Manual or the NFHS Umpire Manual that shows or states that this is an approved mechanic or signal?

no ...

so your local chapter does not use this mechanic - whether there are pictures in a book or not? if not, you should consider it ... it has helped us many, MANY times ...

[SRW]

Originally Posted by 3afan

no ...

so your local chapter does not use this mechanic - whether there are pictures in a book or not? if not, you should consider it ... it has helped us many, MANY times ...

What other unapproved mechanics or signals do you use?

Any double fist pumps?

Is your name Jim by chance? Do you play the piano?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by SRW

What other unapproved mechanics or signals do you use?

Any double fist pumps?

Is your name Jim by chance? Do you play the piano?

Whoa, there, partner. You may disagree with it, but it is taught by umpires of high reputation and national standing.

Umpire signals are a universal language. They are a language that should have no dialect, no vernacular. Signal language is a very simple one. It is designed to be understood by anyone at any ball park. In order to be understood a signal must first be seen. This is why most signals are given from a full upright position and extended up or away from the body. Once a signal is seen, its meaning must be immediately apparent. We cannot have some people thinking we called a ‘safe’ and some thinking we called ‘timeout’ and others wishing for instant replay because they have no idea what we called. Once seen and understood a signal must convince everyone, through its strength and deliberation, that the correct call has been made.

...

Here are two signals you will not find in the manual but may want to add to your ‘bag of tricks’. They have been in use by good umpires for years to better communicate on the field and facilitate the natural flow of the game.

1. As an umpire, either plate or bases, whenever a batter has two strikes you should be prepping yourself for the possibility of a dropped third strike and know in advance whether the batter will be out immediately or must be put out at first base. When the third strike reaches the catcher both umpires must know and be in agreement whether it is caught or uncaught. As a base umpire you can communicate this information to the plate umpire with a simple clenched fist at the belt or at the side of your body if the ball is caught and a point at the ground from either the belt area or side of the body if the ball is not caught by the catcher. A plate umpire who is not sure whether the ball skipped the ground before being secured by the catcher has only to look out to the base umpire to find out. These are not sneaky signals and no more tip off a player than any other umpire-to-umpire signal. They simply enhance the communication among the crew and alert all umpires to whether or not a play is imminent.

The Umpire’s Edge–Mechanics
By Emily Alexander

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Whoa, there, partner. You may disagree with it, but it is taught by umpires of high reputation and national standing.

Oh, I didn't say that I disagree with it. I use it when the mechanics say I can use it... i.e.: NCAA games. It's been made quite clear at the ASA national level that the mechanic described above is not an approved signal.

But my point wasn't to pick apart specific signals and mechanics and decide which are good (i.e.: U3K) or bad (i.e.: double fist pumps)... it was to point out that the umpire shouldn't use unauthorized signals for the code being worked. If the mechanics for that organization authorize the U3K signals, then by all means, use it. But if they don't, then it probably shouldn't be used.

[ronald]

So how does ASA want this type of play handled?

Ron

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by ronald

So how does ASA want this type of play handled?

Ron

Honestly, I dont know in terms of communication between PU/BU on a D3K. Maybe just a meeting after the play?

Youre asking the wrong guy because I often find myself at odds with what is being taught. I believe many things are simply to cater to the lowest common denominator of umpire; of which I am not. A lot of what they do is because they have to train 30K umpires, many of them nitwits.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Whoa, there, partner. You may disagree with it, but it is taught by umpires of high reputation and national standing.

The Umpire’s Edge–Mechanics
By Emily Alexander

I'm not disagreeing with the use of the signal, and have of course used it myself; however, NUS is teaching no more "secret signals" or unapproved signals by umpires. It was a major point at NUS. This would probably fall under that category.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I'm not disagreeing with the use of the signal, and have of course used it myself; however, NUS is teaching no more "secret signals" or unapproved signals by umpires. It was a major point at NUS. This would probably fall under that category.

Read Emily's description again......the first paragraph is talking about the signals that are there for all to see, ie; safe, out, strike, etc. She is advocating that those signals are to be crisp and strong and convey a message to everyone who sees them.

The point or fist signal used on a third strike is not in that category. It is a communication signal for use only between umpires. It is in the same category as the "infield fly is in effect" signal (yes, I know that one is mentioned in the book). I was taught this signal from the beginning of my umpiring career (by Emily, no less). It's a way for the umpires to communicate the situation without tipping off either the offense or defense and allowing the players to complete the play. If you don't want to use this signal, fine. Personally, I will use it anytime I am BU and there is a third strike.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Andy

Read Emily's description again......the first paragraph is talking about the signals that are there for all to see, ie; safe, out, strike, etc. She is advocating that those signals are to be crisp and strong and convey a message to everyone who sees them.

The point or fist signal used on a third strike is not in that category. It is a communication signal for use only between umpires. It is in the same category as the "infield fly is in effect" signal (yes, I know that one is mentioned in the book). I was taught this signal from the beginning of my umpiring career (by Emily, no less). It's a way for the umpires to communicate the situation without tipping off either the offense or defense and allowing the players to complete the play. If you don't want to use this signal, fine. Personally, I will use it anytime I am BU and there is a third strike.

No, its not the same as the IF signal. IF signal is in the manual. This one is not. Umpire - umpire nonapproved communication is exactly what they were talking about. Dont interpret this to mean i agree with them, because I dont. I think whatever you work out with your partner or is understood in the general umpiring community is fine. This type of communication is not allowed per NUS.

[3afan]

Originally Posted by SRW

What other unapproved mechanics or signals do you use?

Any double fist pumps?

Is your name Jim by chance? Do you play the piano?

eh?

this mechanic is certainly approved by my local ASA and my NFHS chapters .... again, you should consider it if you dont use it

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by 3afan

eh?

this mechanic is certainly approved by my local ASA and my NFHS chapters .... again, you should consider it if you dont use it

Here in Pa, we're teaching that in the Fed meetings, using material from the state organization. And, we also teach it in ASA.

[Skahtboi]

Same in Texas as far as NFHS goes. I think, though, as 3afan has pointed out, his metro UIC has apparently approved it, and I think that is how it is working here. Various state and metro organizations either approving or disapproving it.