Whoops!

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

No its not obstruction by an umpire, its "out/safe" by an umpire, it is not tracking the ball by an umpire, and it is definitely an error by the umpire... the defense knew the player was not out. I think the defense has to eat it, and I think the PU needs to take his due heat for his major error.

2 in a row, Wade....

Exactly right.....

[AtlUmpSteve]

Players are not out because an umpire says so; players are out because a rule says they are out, and the umpire acknowledges that out. When it is clear that they are NOT out by rule, then the umpire must acknowledge they are not out, even if that means changing his call. You call someone out on a tag, then see the ball on the ground, they are safe, aren't they?

The umpire's statement that the batter is out doesn't change the obligation of the defense to actually get the out. In this case, not only did the defense err, but the defense attempted to deceive the umpire; even if it was unknowing, or even thinking the short hop is a legal catch. The ONE PERSON on the field that absolutely knew the ball wasn't caught in flight is the catcher, so she gets ZERO reliance on the alleged jeopardy resulting from the umpire having to change his call.

To the second point, if the runner from third had scored, then the runner from third scored. The third out was not made, the catcher was not put in jeopardy by the umpire, and nothing here made it a dead ball. The defense screwed up, and reaps the result.

[Dakota]

ASSUMING the PU did in fact verbalize that the batter was out, then this is a changed call by an umpire, and the rule book does allow the umpire to rectify the situation. But, even so, there is no way an out should be awarded, and certainly not a do over. F2 tried to pull a fast one and got hoist on her own petard. Quit being so clever next time, F2, and just tag the batter.

[hawk65]

The base umpire was aware of the "closed fist" signal but plate umpire never looked to base umpire for help. Knowing immediately that an error had been made, the plate umpire was not seeking help and a volatile situation was developing, was there any other action the base umpire should have taken before waiting for the plate umpire to assist?