4th out situation

[greymule]

Now that we know that a fourth out appeal cannot be upheld on a runner who did not score . . .

Bases loaded, 2 out. BR hits a ball off the fence and misses 1B on his way around the bases. The three runners touch all their bases and score. BR is almost home when he sees the late throw arriving. When the BR hears the defensive coach say, "Just throw to 1B and appeal. He missed the bag by a mile," the BR catches the throw and tosses the ball into the dugout (or runs directly into the dugout to be declared out). The defensive team then asks for an appeal of the missed 1B.

Your ruling?

[canump]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

No.

The 4th out appeal only is valid for runners who have scored.

But a run did score on this play.
I don't have my rule book here at work and its been awhile since I read it, but the CASA rule book has a rule which states something along the lines of " No run may score if the 3rd out is a result of the batter not advancing to and touching 1st and or any runner not advancing to or touching the bag that they were forced to advance to."
This is not an appeal play as per say but an actual ruling in our rule book even though I might have miss worded what is actualy written. As the opening post said there were 2 out at the time.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by canump

But a run did score on this play.
No run may score if the 3rd out is a result of the batter not advancing to and touching 1st and or any runner not advancing to or touching the bag that they were forced to advance to

If the 3rd out was the BR, then, you would be correct. But, the 3rd out was
R2 by being tagged. The appeal on the BR would be a 4th out, which isn't recognized by ASA unless it is for a runner that has scored and THAT runner is the one who committed the violation.

Originally Posted by CELTICNHBLUE

Situation:

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, 2 outs and 2 strikes on the batter.

D3K, R1 scores, R2 attempts to score but is thrown out at the plate to end the inning. BR never advances to 1B but stays in live ball territory until action is over. Catcher now tags BR for 4th out in an attempt to negate run scored by R1.

[BuggBob]

Gee whiz guys, this is a no brainier call. The run does not score (in any affiliation) because an out was made on the batter runner before they touched first. Don’t get caught up in fourth out appeals because there was NO appeal this is a standard definition of a force out. The runner was put out, either by tag or by bag, before reaching the base they were forced. No run will score if the third (fourth) out is the result of a force.

Bugg

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

...No run will score if the ...fourth... out is the result of a force.

Rule citation for ASA, please.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Gee whiz guys, this is a no brainier call. The run does not score (in any affiliation) because an out was made on the batter runner before they touched first. Don’t get caught up in fourth out appeals because there was NO appeal this is a standard definition of a force out. The runner was put out, either by tag or by bag, before reaching the base they were forced. No run will score if the third (fourth) out is the result of a force.

Bugg

Did you read the OP? The third out was recorded when R2 was thrown out at the plate. R1 scored before R2 was tagged out. Run scores. Whatever BR did or didn't do doesn't matter, since the third out was already recorded.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Gee whiz guys, this is a no brainier call. The run does not score (in any affiliation) because an out was made on the batter runner before they touched first. Don’t get caught up in fourth out appeals because there was NO appeal this is a standard definition of a force out. The runner was put out, either by tag or by bag, before reaching the base they were forced. No run will score if the third (fourth) out is the result of a force.

Bugg

You on the same page as the OP?

[canump]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Gee whiz guys, this is a no brainier call. The run does not score (in any affiliation) because an out was made on the batter runner before they touched first. Don’t get caught up in fourth out appeals because there was NO appeal this is a standard definition of a force out. The runner was put out, either by tag or by bag, before reaching the base they were forced. No run will score if the third (fourth) out is the result of a force.

Bugg

Soory guys but I got to agree with BuggBob. The batter is still obligated to go to 1st and it still considered a force. At the start of the play there were 2 out and the batter runner, whether it be the 3rd out or 4th out, it's still a force out and the rule book states what happens when the 3rd out or 4th out is a force out when the play starts with 2 out. no runs count.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by canump

... the rule book states what happens when the 3rd out or 4th out is a force out when the play starts with 2 out. no runs count.

Speaking ASA, where does the rule book say that? Citation, please.

You will notice that this whole thread has made a distinction between ASA and (nearly) everyone else. Nothing to disagree with there. So, I guess you are disagreeing with those who are stating the ASA rule. So, citation, please?

[greymule]

Soory guys but I got to agree with BuggBob. The batter is still obligated to go to 1st and it still considered a force. At the start of the play there were 2 out and the batter runner, whether it be the 3rd out or 4th out, it's still a force out and the rule book states what happens when the 3rd out or 4th out is a force out when the play starts with 2 out. no runs count.

You are 100% correct for every code on earth, including the Central African Pygmy Softball Association and the Yemeni Slayer-of-the-Infidel Softball Federation.

Except ASA.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by greymule

Soory guys but I got to agree with BuggBob. The batter is still obligated to go to 1st and it still considered a force. At the start of the play there were 2 out and the batter runner, whether it be the 3rd out or 4th out, it's still a force out and the rule book states what happens when the 3rd out or 4th out is a force out when the play starts with 2 out. no runs count.

You are 100% correct for every code on earth, including the Central African Pygmy Softball Association and the Yemeni Slayer-of-the-Infidel Softball Federation.

Except ASA.

That there is funny, I don't care who ya are...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by greymule

...You are 100% correct for every code on earth, including the Central African Pygmy Softball Association and the Yemeni Slayer-of-the-Infidel Softball Federation.

Except ASA.

Thanks. I've now edited my post to remove "nearly"...

[SRW]

It was clearly explained to our umpires on Monday.

Pretend you're the batter... and there's runners on 2 and 3 with 2 outs. You hit a ground ball to left field. The runner on 3 scores, but the runner on 2 is put out at third before you get to first base. You see the third out... what do you do? You trot in to the dugout. Why? Because there's 3 outs already. What incentive do you have to actually touch first base? You've got to get your glove and go play defense now.

[Stu Clary]

Originally Posted by greymule

Yemeni Slayer-of-the-Infidel Softball Federation.

They paid good?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

They paid good?

The pay is great, they even pay mileage. But if you blow a call, it really doesn't matter. You know those beheading videos that were all the rage on the internet a couple of years back? Those were really umpires that the YSISF were unhappy with.