4th out situation

[CelticNHBlue]

Situation:

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, 2 outs and 2 strikes on the batter.

D3K, R1 scores, R2 attempts to score but is thrown out at the plate to end the inning. BR never advances to 1B but stays in live ball territory until action is over. Catcher now tags BR for 4th out in an attempt to negate run scored by R1.

What is your call?

[Dakota]

ASA rules?

[MNBlue]

Can only call 4th out on a runner that scored and violated the rules: missed a base, or left early on a caught fly ball.

Deny 4th out appeal. R1 scores.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Can only call 4th out on a runner that scored and violated the rules: missed a base, or left early on a caught fly ball.

Deny 4th out appeal. R1 scores.

That would be assuming ASA.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

That would be assuming ASA.

Correct

[canump]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Can only call 4th out on a runner that scored and violated the rules: missed a base, or left early on a caught fly ball.

Deny 4th out appeal. R1 scores.

Mark would the fact that the BR not advancing to 1st not be considered a rule violation and be considered an appeal play which then could be used as a 4th out
Just wondering here.

[Dakota]

BR didn't score. ASA Rule 5-5-B:

No run shall be scored if a “fourth out” is the result of an appeal of a base missed or left to soon on a runner who has scored.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by canump

Mark would the fact that the BR not advancing to 1st not be considered a rule violation and be considered an appeal play which then could be used as a 4th out
Just wondering here.

No.

The 4th out appeal only is valid for runners who have scored.

[NCASAUmp]

I see where you're going with this, but unfortunately for the defense, I've got 3 outs and R1 scored. She should have tagged BR and not R2. Once you've got 3 outs, you've got 3 outs, and your "fourth out appeal" can only be on a runner that scored. You can't "take away" an out.

[greymule]

Up until a couple of years ago, that exact same ASA case play had the run nullified on an advantageous fourth out. Not really an appeal, simply the BR before reaching 1B, but the principle is the same. ASA used to permit advantageous appeals after 3 outs on any runner, not just one who had scored.

However, for some reason unknown to me, they changed their rule.

I know of no other code that parallels ASA's in this regard.

[canump]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

No.

The 4th out appeal only is valid for runners who have scored.

But a run did score on this play.
I don't have my rule book here at work and its been awhile since I read it, but the CASA rule book has a rule which states something along the lines of " No run may score if the 3rd out is a result of the batter not advancing to and touching 1st and or any runner not advancing to or touching the bag that they were forced to advance to."
This is not an appeal play as per say but an actual ruling in our rule book even though I might have miss worded what is actualy written. As the opening post said there were 2 out at the time.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by canump

But a run did score on this play.
No run may score if the 3rd out is a result of the batter not advancing to and touching 1st and or any runner not advancing to or touching the bag that they were forced to advance to

If the 3rd out was the BR, then, you would be correct. But, the 3rd out was
R2 by being tagged. The appeal on the BR would be a 4th out, which isn't recognized by ASA unless it is for a runner that has scored and THAT runner is the one who committed the violation.

Originally Posted by CELTICNHBLUE

Situation:

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, 2 outs and 2 strikes on the batter.

D3K, R1 scores, R2 attempts to score but is thrown out at the plate to end the inning. BR never advances to 1B but stays in live ball territory until action is over. Catcher now tags BR for 4th out in an attempt to negate run scored by R1.