ASA Look Back Rule

[12yearblue]

I've got an illegal pitch, which should have been called as soon as the hands come together again. Before the runners even get started running. There is a time between when the illegal pitch has occured and the pitch has been released.

[pollywolly60]

Okay, there may be a catch, but I haven't found it.

I don't see it as a correct call. When the pitcher faked a throw to first base, causing the runner to react, then the LBR is no longer in effect.

[ronald]

page 8-50 of casebook, play 8.8-64

Ruling: No penalty. The fake throw nullifies the look back rule (8-7T).

Wished the rulers would have stated when the lbr goes back into effect on a play like this. In addition, do not remember any clinician discussing this type of play.

So, waiting for guidance and the reasoning. Then i can answer the questions

[Thurman15]

F1 had the ball in the circle. BR runs to 1B and continues 3 steps past 1B, then stops, then returns to 1B. Does this constitute a LBR violation by the BR?

With F1 having the ball in the circle, isn't a base runner allowed one stop then immediate advancement or retreat to the next or previous base without causing a LBR violation?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by 12yearblue

I've got an illegal pitch, which should have been called as soon as the hands come together again. Before the runners even get started running. There is a time between when the illegal pitch has occured and the pitch has been released.

There was no comment about the pitcher taking her place on the PP and bringing her hands to together in the OP. The pitcher simply received the ball in the circle. IP is not an option.

Okay Mike, I am with the rest of the bunch. What's the catch?

[Stu Clary]

Originally Posted by 12yearblue

I've got an illegal pitch, which should have been called as soon as the hands come together again. Before the runners even get started running. There is a time between when the illegal pitch has occured and the pitch has been released.

Are you in the right thread?

[ronald]

Bad call by the BU. LBR will not go back into effect until the runner running home has completed her play.

The runner that has come off 1b can stand there like a lump off a log and watch the runner from 3rd. Once the runner reaches home plate then the runner between the bases has to make a decision to advance or return given that the pitcher has possession and control of the ball in the circle.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by ronald

... LBR will not go back into effect until the runner running home has completed her play.

The runner that has come off 1b can stand there like a lump off a log and watch the runner from 3rd. Once the runner reaches home plate then the runner between the bases has to make a decision to advance or return given that the pitcher has possession and control of the ball in the circle.

This is incorrect. The actions of other runners have no effect on the LBR for any other runner.

[ronald]

2nd time trying to respond to this thread.

The counterpoint I was referring to works ISF sanctioned tournaments (World Cup) and worked with Mike at the Central Atlantic Clinic.

I specifically asked her if the runner that was off first base could just stand off 1B and watch the runner run home and not be in violation of the LBR. The response was yes. The fake throw took off the LBR and now the other runner is completing a play. She made it know that the LBR is nullified with the fake throw and will not go back into effect until the runner from 3rd completes her play.

I may have mangled the description and misunderstood everything she said, but I do not think so.

If needed, I will email her the play.

Ron

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by ronald

2nd time trying to respond to this thread.

The counterpoint I was referring to works ISF sanctioned tournaments (World Cup) and worked with Mike at the Central Atlantic Clinic.

I specifically asked her if the runner that was off first base could just stand off 1B and watch the runner run home and not be in violation of the LBR. The response was yes. The fake throw took off the LBR and now the other runner is completing a play. She made it know that the LBR is nullified with the fake throw and will not go back into effect until the runner from 3rd completes her play.

I may have mangled the description and misunderstood everything she said, but I do not think so.

If needed, I will email her the play.

Ron

It probably wont be in effect until the runner completes her play... since it takes about 2 seconds to get home. But LBR going into effect has nothing to do with R1 "completing their play".

Consider this.. F1, Fake throw, R1 takes off.. then pitcher stands with possession..

R1 in DMR (dumb move runner ??) runs back and forth between 3rd and home, changing directions twice or more.. can you guess what happens?

R1 "completing their play" has nothing to do with LBR.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

2nd time trying to respond to this thread.

The counterpoint I was referring to works ISF sanctioned tournaments (World Cup) and worked with Mike at the Central Atlantic Clinic.

I specifically asked her if the runner that was off first base could just stand off 1B and watch the runner run home and not be in violation of the LBR. The response was yes. The fake throw took off the LBR and now the other runner is completing a play. She made it know that the LBR is nullified with the fake throw and will not go back into effect until the runner from 3rd completes her play.

I may have mangled the description and misunderstood everything she said, but I do not think so.

If needed, I will email her the play.

Ron

If there was a play on the runner going home, that would be correct. However, if for some reason the pitchers simply stands in the circle with the ball simply ignoring the runners, there is nothing to support that contention. Of course, we all know that isn't going to happen.

[ronald]

Dakota,

Sounds like I am not expressing myself clearly.

I am saying that in the OP set forth by Mike, the runner that has stopped between 1b and 2b can do so and not be in violation of the LBR cause the LBR was nullified by the fake throw and immediate play by the runner at 3rd.

That is also how I interprets Mike's answer that the BU call was incorrect.

If Mike said that the call was incorrect, that means the ump got it wrong when the ump ruled a LBR violation.

I also understand that if a runner at any base is advancing as the BR is running to 1b after receiving ball four and then the BR rounds 1st and stops like a lump on a log, then the BR will be called out for a LBR violation. That is not what Mike set forth.

Ron

[ronald]

again, i may have mangled the description.

But I tried to ask specifically what Mike has posted that the "pitchers simply stands in the circle with the ball simply ignoring the runners.." Seems to be a disagreement between UICs if I have described it correctly.

Will email her.

Ron

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by ronald

I am saying that in the OP set forth by Mike, the runner that has stopped between 1b and 2b can do so and not be in violation of the LBR cause the LBR was nullified by the fake throw and immediate play by the runner at 3rd.

A play on one runner does nullify LBR for another runner.
That is why in the OP its a bad call.

No one is disputing that that I know of.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by ronald

The counterpoint I was referring to

Ron

The first time you said this, I was wondering what in the hell you were talking about. Now I have figured out, you mean "counterpart."