Countdown Timer

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Ive seen some areas use em and some areas they dont... no big deal. Thats the policy of your area. I'm not sure who these people are that allow you to "confiscate" their stuff, or who you think you are to take peoples stuff, but that is weak of them. Must be a WA thing.

I am sure it is more a case of the UIC removing the offending object from the game, and the umpire to which it belongs simply forgetting to pick it up after the game. "Confiscate" is probably a little harsh.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Ive seen some areas use em and some areas they dont... no big deal. Thats the policy of your area. I'm not sure who these people are that allow you to "confiscate" their stuff, or who you think you are to take peoples stuff, but that is weak of them. Must be a WA thing.

In one case, the timer was removed from the backside of the backstop, through the fence. The other case was the umpire's partner, disgusted about it being there, removed it off the fence inbetween innings and handed it to me at the dugout opening.

In both cases, I told the umpires that I had the timers, and was being directed to remove them from the fences on the tournaments I was the UIC for. I also told them that the timers were not allowed per the then-Seattle Metro UIC's policy, and reminded them of the general membership meeting where the policy was put into effect. I then explained to them that if they wanted to get the timers back, they needed to explain to the UIC why they so blatantly disregarded his policy, and if he told me to give the timers back, I would.

None ever talked to him about it. And I've never had any more problem with them putting timers up there, or anyone else for that matter.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

I can guaran-frickin-tee you that if any of you come work games in Seattle, you'd better leave your kitchen timers in the kitchen, and not have them clipped to the backstop. If we've got a time limit (and we typically do), we tell the coaches that they can start their own clock with the first pitch, but our watch is official. Tell the coaches about an inning before time's about to expire that "this'll probably be the last inning" and there's no problem.

I've got two timers that I've removed from the back side of fences from umpires in tournaments I've UIC'd. (and I'm pretty sure bkbjones has some too for the same thing). If any of you need a new one, let me know, I'll send one to you. Just don't bring it back.

Personally, I don't see the issue.

What is the problem with displaying the time? I've seen clocks at a national on the scoreboard and where are the controls? Hanging on the backstop!

I've also UICed regional and NQs where the clock was not available. Nothing, but whining when a team's clock did not coincide with the umpire's watch "hidden" (as it was put to me) in the umpire's pocket. I spent more time discussing the integrity of the umpires than the calls on the field, all because of the clocks. Personally, I have no problem defending the umpires on this issue, but I don't understand why you would go out of your way to insure the "official" time is not available when it could be.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Personally, I don't see the issue.

What is the problem with displaying the time? I've seen clocks at a national on the scoreboard and where are the controls? Hanging on the backstop!

I've also UICed regional and NQs where the clock was not available. Nothing, but whining when a team's clock did not coincide with the umpire's watch "hidden" (as it was put to me) in the umpire's pocket. I spent more time discussing the integrity of the umpires than the calls on the field, all because of the clocks. Personally, I have no problem defending the umpires on this issue, but I don't understand why you would go out of your way to insure the "official" time is not available when it could be.

One very good reason: because the then Seattle Tacoma UIC said so.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

One very good reason: because the then Seattle Tacoma UIC said so.

Its not inherently more professional to be digging around in your pocket for your watch or looking at your cell phone often towards the end of the game.

I do know some areas do not use timers.

That does not mean there is nothing wrong with them.

They are there, you cant shave minutes, they beep when they go off, coaches can check the time for themselves.

If an area told me not to use one in a tourney, I simply wouldnt. I have a back up timer on keep on my Water Bottle holder. No big deal.

[Dakota]

Personally, I don't buy any of the reasons stated for not allowing them, other than the somewhat irrational "'cause he said 'no.'"

Amongst everything else hanging from the chain link, they are not a clutter problem.

The objection that the umpire is the official time doesn't wash, either, since it is apparently based on the assumption that the umpire needs to have the authority to shave the time.

And, besides, the umpire can still keep his "official time" in his pocket and the timer on the fence is unofficial and for information only (like football officials keep the official time even though the scoreboard displays the time).

Of course, this is not an issue worth kicking against. If the UIC doesn't want them, don't use them.

I keep a countdown timer that beeps in my second ball bag. It will let me know when it expires, but it is only loud enough for me to hear, and perhaps the catcher, with all the noise at the typical ball game.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Its not inherently more professional to be digging around in your pocket for your watch or looking at your cell phone often towards the end of the game.

Um.
Cell phone with you on the field?

Why?

Got a long distance call to make from behind the shortstop?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Um.
Cell phone with you on the field?

Why?

Got a long distance call to make from behind the shortstop?

No, he needs it to check the video replay of that on single call that cost the team the game

[Skahtboi]

I have the solution for all the timer issues. Let's make all tournaments 5 innings long, period.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by SRW

Um.
Cell phone with you on the field?

Why?

Got a long distance call to make from behind the shortstop?

Dunno, I use a kitchen timer.. thats what you see when you dont allow timers or with people that done use them.. watches and cell phones being pulled out from crevices.

I guess people think that looks better. Me, I just put the timer on the fence and announce to the score keeper when I start it.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, he needs it to check the video replay of that on single call that cost the team the game

Dang... don't get me started.

Members of the SC Legislature have decided to introduce a bill requiring instant replay during playoffs in High School League Football and Basketball.

Why? Because in last week's AAAA Boy's Basketball Championship game, a player (whose team was one point down at the time) slung a basketball from beside the lane on the other end of the court. It went around the rim once before falling in. From watching (and listening to the video), the ball has just left the player's hands when the final horn sounds. However, the three officials quickly conferenced, one of them signalled no good (too late) and nearly ran off the court [can't say that I blame them.]

Now don't get me wrong; this team got shafted. But the overraction from the legislators is a wonder to behold. Except it isn't. It's just par for the course these days.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Personally, I don't buy any of the reasons stated for not allowing them, other than the somewhat irrational "'cause he said 'no.'"

Amongst everything else hanging from the chain link, they are not a clutter problem.

The objection that the umpire is the official time doesn't wash, either, since it is apparently based on the assumption that the umpire needs to have the authority to shave the time.

And, besides, the umpire can still keep his "official time" in his pocket and the timer on the fence is unofficial and for information only (like football officials keep the official time even though the scoreboard displays the time).

Of course, this is not an issue worth kicking against. If the UIC doesn't want them, don't use them.

I keep a countdown timer that beeps in my second ball bag. It will let me know when it expires, but it is only loud enough for me to hear, and perhaps the catcher, with all the noise at the typical ball game.

Me irrational? I'm gonna tell my shrink on you.

I believe I have already stated that we do NOT stand for umpires to shave time. If it's an 80 minutes no new innings and the game is not complete before that time, you are expected to go at least 80 minutes.

And, I think I've already said that if your association uses a kitchen timer, alarm clock, the old Longines clock from Yankee Stadium or Big Ben, I certainly have no problem with that.

We also discourage our umpires from "digging around in their pockets" for their timepiece, especially when you know damned good and well it's not 1:20 yet. A glance at it between innings when you've got a minute and standing on the foul line or getting a drink should suffice. We have more important things to do when standing behind the catcher than dig around for a timepiece.

Plus, if you have that much crap in your pocket that you can't easily retrieve your timepiece, you have too much crap in your pocket.

This is NOT meant to be critical of associations or individual umpires who use kitchen timers or other timepieces. A kitchen timer on the fence is no more irrational than my 15 year old watch with a stopwatch function in my otherwise-empty front right pocket. I understand their function and actually agree that it's a good way to do it. Besides, my wife doesn't have to wonder what happened to her kitchen timer on the side of the fridge.

it's just not the way we do things here, and by God if my UIC says don't do it, I'm not going to do it. (Besides, he carries a much bigger gun than I.) By all means, do what your association expects you to do.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

...We also discourage our umpires from "digging around in their pockets" for their timepiece... if you ... can't easily retrieve your timepiece, you have too much crap in your pocket....

Either that or you are wearing those $#%#$%^& Official ASA britches with the #$@#$%$#%& Western cut pockets...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

...Now don't get me wrong; this team got shafted....

From what I can gather from viewing the really poor video and reading the BB board and looking at the still frames from the video, I do not believe your conclusion can be supported as anything other than an opinion. Of course, being from upstate, your opinion may be somewhat biased!

Still frames that have been posted (reported to be every frame, that is every 1/30 of a second) show

--- ball in the players hands, scoreboard lights not lit
--- ball out of the players hands, scoreboard lights lit

So, all that tells us is that sometime in the intervening 1/30 of a second, the time expired and the shot was away. It does NOT say which happened first.

One ref on the court waved the shot off BEFORE the refs conferred.

Also, NFHS rules (so I've been told - I'm not a BB ref) go by the horn only and not by the scoreboard light, so in a sense, the still frames are irrelevant. As bad as that video is, I don't see how anyone could overrule the on-the-court ruling from the video.

There were 1.7 seconds on the clock at the time of the missed free-throw. That is 51 video frames if the scorekeeper started the clock at exactly the correct time in the game action. From the time the Spartanburg player touched the ball after the missed free throw until his hands were back making the shot (ball still in his hands) was 56 frames - meaning time should have expired 5 frames earlier.

Not trying to re-start the discussion from the BB board over here (where we are, at best, mostly fans, not officials of BB --- if that), but I don't think you can say Spartanburg "got shafted." They were on the losing end of a tough call. I would guess they had ample opportunities earlier in the game to actually win it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

Dang... don't get me started.

Members of the SC Legislature have decided to introduce a bill requiring instant replay during playoffs in High School League Football and Basketball.

And how much money will the appropriate to support this ruling? There is the equipment and maintenance, personnel to operate the cameras, technicians to monitor and troubleshoot, electricians and advisors. Mama Gump must have been from SC where stupid is as stupid does.

Now don't get me wrong; this team got shafted.

No, they didn't. Any team which relies on final play of a game to secure a win did not play well enough to deserve it more than their opponent.

But the overraction from the legislators is a wonder to behold. Except it isn't. It's just par for the course these days.

They are competing with the US Congress to see who can waste more time and money trying to control things beyond their scope instead of doing the job we elected them to do. These guys should go fly a kite, but if it is the Stars & Bars, they better be sure it doesn't wonder over the capitol or the NCAA will have them in front of some simple-a$$ committee in DC.