Foul tip?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Mike,
Didn't the original post state that the ball was lodged, and that the catcher reached in & got it? Maybe nit-picking, but if it's lodged I would think it should be dead.

Yes, it did say it was lodged, in a defender's legal and properly worn gear. The defense allowed the ball on which they were making a play become lodged, not the offense. If a runner is stealing, are you going to put them back on 1B and penalize the offense for a defensive faux pas? The is the defense's problem, no one elses. There is no ASA rule supporting ruling this ball dead, at least none that I can find.

[greymule]

Well, I guess we've established that the OP is indeed a foul tip. Thank you all for your input.

Now:

Bases loaded, nicked ball goes hand to shoulder to lodged behind the protector. Offensive coach knows to send all the runners while the catcher is struggling with the protector, and all three cross the plate. You, of course, watch to see whether the catcher ever gets secure possession.

The pitcher decides to give the catcher some help and comes in and lifts the protector away from F2's body, and the ball falls out into the pitcher's hand.

OK. Everybody back on your bases!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

Well, I guess we've established that the OP is indeed a foul tip. Thank you all for your input.

Now:

Bases loaded, nicked ball goes hand to shoulder to lodged behind the protector. Offensive coach knows to send all the runners while the catcher is struggling with the protector, and all three cross the plate. You, of course, watch to see whether the catcher ever gets secure possession.

The pitcher decides to give the catcher some help and comes in and lifts the protector away from F2's body, and the ball falls out into the pitcher's hand.

OK. Everybody back on your bases!

That would be a foul ball

[greymule]

That would be a foul ball

Right. For the play to be a foul tip, F2 would have to catch the ball. But since F1 is the one who secured the ball, it's simply a foul. That's why all runners would return.

Now let's posit that in the confusion with the ball lodged behind the protector and the coach exhorting the runners to advance, one of the runners passed another. Would she still be out if the potential foul tip didn't materialize and the ball became simply a foul?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by greymule

That would be a foul ball

Right. For the play to be a foul tip, F2 would have to catch the ball. But since F1 is the one who secured the ball, it's simply a foul. That's why all runners would return.

Now let's posit that in the confusion with the ball lodged behind the protector and the coach exhorting the runners to advance, one of the runners passed another. Would she still be out if the potential foul tip didn't materialize and the ball became simply a foul?

The ball was live until F1 touched it, so anything that happened would seem to remain. But, a foul ball is a foul ball, so nothing happens. Wait, the ball was caught in flight, batter out, runners may advance after tagging. So, all base running rules apply.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

That would be a foul ball

Right. For the play to be a foul tip, F2 would have to catch the ball. But since F1 is the one who secured the ball, it's simply a foul. That's why all runners would return.

Now let's posit that in the confusion with the ball lodged behind the protector and the coach exhorting the runners to advance, one of the runners passed another. Would she still be out if the potential foul tip didn't materialize and the ball became simply a foul?

No.

[Dholloway1962]

There is a question like this (the original post) on ASA test this year about lodged equipment

16) When a live ball becomes lodged in a defensive player’s equipment the ball is dead and all runners are awarded one base

[greymule]

16) When a live ball becomes lodged in a defensive player’s equipment the ball is dead and all runners are awarded one base

Just on the chance that somebody unfamiliar with the test might think this is a ruling or something, it is a statement to be judged true or false (and the answer is "false").

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

There is a question like this (the original post) on ASA test this year about lodged equipment

16) When a live ball becomes lodged in a defensive player’s equipment the ball is dead and all runners are awarded one base

That would be true.......if the defensive player walks into DBT with the ball

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yes, it did say it was lodged, in a defender's legal and properly worn gear. The defense allowed the ball on which they were making a play become lodged, not the offense. If a runner is stealing, are you going to put them back on 1B and penalize the offense for a defensive faux pas? The is the defense's problem, no one elses. There is no ASA rule supporting ruling this ball dead, at least none that I can find.

Mike,
As I stop and think - I know novel thought - the ball is live and the ruling makes sense and I have even made that call in the past. Dunno what I was thinking, but obviously it was soemthing else.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Mike,
As I stop and think - I know novel thought - the ball is live and the ruling makes sense and I have even made that call in the past. Dunno what I was thinking, but obviously it was soemthing else.

Must have been jet lag