NSA Ruling?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Wasn't it U-trip that "banned" a bunch of bats a few years ago where the issue was not bat performance but paying for "sponsorship" or some such tribute?

Yes. And the same thing happened with Dixie Softball Inc a few years back as well.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Dakota

In other words, you do not believe that the owner of the copyrighted work has the right to decide how the work will be make available, by what medium, and at what price.

Of course they have the right! Did I say they didn't?

What I'm saying is that I think it is ill-advised that they exercise that right. I think the organization, softball, and the softball community would be better served if the system of rules was made readily available. And the internet is the perfect medium to do that - as countless other institutions have discovered.

Obviously, you've never actually looked at what ASA and NFHS have for sale. Fact is, you CAN do this with ASA (buy their CD) and you do NOT have to be registered with anyone to buy it. You CAN do this with NFHS, but it does require you to be a registered official with them. As to answering the question "why" is this the only way? Because the OWNERS of the copyrighted works have decided that is how they want to make THEIR work available.

I know! I know!

You do not have to be registered. I get it! But you always have to pay for it. It's never free and it's not readily available.

A parent watches their kid's game. Their daughter gets called for an illegal pitch. After the game, the parent asks his daughter, "Katie, why did that umpire call an illegal pitch? What did you do wrong?" (She's 12-yrs-old)

"He said I didn't wait long enough."

"Huh? Wait long enough for what?"

"I dunno. That's just what he said."

"Did your coach tell you anything?"

"He just told me to wait longer before I pitch."

"Wait for what?"

"I dunno."

So, the parent is not satisfied with the answers and decides he'll read through the pitching regulations before he goes to bed that night. He's just curious.

Bzzzzt!

Thanks for playing! Because Katie was playing under ASA rules and the ASA is going to make Daddy buy a book to find out. Or, Daddy has to ask somebody else about it and get the information second hand.

Fat chance he's going to buy a book to find out that one point of curiosity.

And, apparently, that's the way ASA likes it.

And, that is your opinion, but unfortunately, since you do not own the copyrights to these works, it is not your decision to make. Feel free to express you opinion to the ASA and to the NFHS. My only point is it is their decision to make. Not mine. Not yours.

Are you friggin' dense???

I'm not claiming it should be my decision. I completely understand they have the right to exercise the distribution of their rulebook in any manner they feel is appropriate.

But it is my right to disagree with their decision.

Geez!

You act like you've never heard anybody express this opinion before. Amazing.

Which of those two organizations have as their mission to "educate the public on the rules of the game?" The published rules are for the benefit of the participants in the game. They are made available to the public for purchase, but apparently you think they should be free. They disagree.

Yeah, whatever.

Very compelling.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[azbigdawg]

Mr. Emerling..by any chance are you an attorney?

If you arent..you should be....because you shovel crap with the best of them.

[IRISHMAFIA]

No, I don't think I should get the book for free, I think the rules should be readily available, online, for those who don't want to purchase the book.

LOL!!! Keep going, you are getting closer to joining the piano man

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

LOL!!! Keep going, you are getting closer to joining the piano man

I have no idea what the this "piano man" reference is you keep resorting to. Is it some kind of oblique insult? Or, are you just entertaining yourself?

Quite frankly, I don't get. But if you want me to be upset and hurt by it - I'm devastated!


David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

I have no idea what the this "piano man" reference is you keep resorting to. Is it some kind of oblique insult? Or, are you just entertaining yourself?

Quite frankly, I don't get. But if you want me to be upset and hurt by it - I'm devastated!


David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Don't think so as I do not believe in words having the power to hurt anyone, they are just words.

And I don't care if you don't get it. Say hello to Jim for me.

See ya.

[Dakota]

I get it, Jim (err, I mean David). I always did. You want someone else's property free, just like the teenage file sharers. The owners choose not to give it away, so you try (in vain) to make yourself sound righteous. Frankly, I don't care whether Daddy understands the rules or not. Even if he is the coach. I just officiate the game according to the rules. The books are available to anyone who wants to educate themselves.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I get it, Jim (err, I mean David). I always did. You want someone else's property free, just like the teenage file sharers. The owners choose not to give it away, so you try (in vain) to make yourself sound righteous. Frankly, I don't care whether Daddy understands the rules or not. Even if he is the coach. I just officiate the game according to the rules. The books are available to anyone who wants to educate themselves.

You are confusing information about the rules with the book itself.

I completely understand there are expenses associated with publishing a book. Those expenses need to be recouped in some manner. If somebody wants their own copy, I have no problem with them having to pay for it. Mostly coaches and umpires will want to have a paper copy, even if the rules were available online. And, some people simply like the convenience of having things on paper instead of their computer screen. They'll have to pay for that convenience. No problem. (Yes, I realize coaches and umpires get their own book upon registration. But they better not lose it!)

Personally, I prefer to study rules from a book, not a computer screen. Although, on occasion, it's nice to have the option to electronically search something if I'm having difficulty finding what I'm looking for - especially in a Case Book.

Why would any of this preclude making the rules available online? What would be the purpose of not making the rules widely known and easily accessible, even for just casual perusal by an interested party?

I understand that the ASA (and NFHS) has the right to not make their rules available online. I get that! They view it as something to be guarded closely - like an artist's song, or a movie script. But in these last examples, it is very clear why they don't want people to have these for free. If everybody downloaded Britney Spears' songs, for free off the internet, how would she make any money? It's a money thing! If bootleg copies of Steven Spielberg's movies were all over the place, it would cut into profits. The point of making songs and movies is specifically to make money - so, to protect those things makes complete sense.

Are you suggesting this is the same argument for the ASA and NFHS rulebooks? Get serious!

I'll bet more copies of the MLB rulebook are sold than the ASA rulebook, and the MLB rules are online for all to see.

Would you disagree with the following statement?

All interests are best served if information regarding a sport is readily available to all; which would include: officials, coaches, players, fans, and casual observers.

In my example of the father who is curious about an "illegal pitch" called on his daughter, you think that it's a good thing that he cannot quickly, conveniently, and readily satisfy his curiosity when it is quite evident his young daughter doesn't fully understand what happened?

Sure! Sure! It's the coach's job to explain it to her. I agree. But wouldn't it still be a "good thing" if more than just the game participants understood what was going on?

The bottom line is this: Not making the rules readily available online is a specious and self-serving argument that is not in the best interests of the game.

I realize that the powers-that-be in these organizations obviously disagree with me. They should wonder why they are in the minority on this matter as the overwhelming majority of organizations embrace the notion of educating the world about the details of their sport. They would probably be flattered if their online rules were getting thousands upon thousands of "hits."

I'm wondering what's next: an ASA secret handshake?

If you polled umpires and coaches (individuals who get their own book) and asked them if they would like the rules, nonetheless, to be readily available online: What do you think the results would be?

'nuf said!

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

You are confusing information about the rules with the book itself.
Memphis, TN

No, it is you who are confusing intellectual property with the physical media used for distribution. Just like the teenagers.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Dakota

No, it is you who are confusing intellectual property with the physical media used for distribution. Just like the teenagers.

Are you saying there's not a difference?

I can listen to Britney Spears' songs for free on the radio - can't I? But if I want my own copy, to listen to it whenever I want (as if I'd want to do that ) I'd have to buy the CD.

I can watch the movie "Saving Private Ryan" on CBS when it airs, but if I want my own copy, to watch whenever I want, I'd have to buy the DVD.

I can be a fan, watching a game, and be curious about an "illegal pitch" that was called. I could go home and check out the rule on the internet at a later time, but if I want to have the convenience of checking it out now, I'd have to have the rulebook with me. Which means I'd have to purchase one.

"Intellectual property" can be invoked on countless things. And many people do! But just because they do does not necessarily mean it is wisest to make the product difficult to access. Besides, many people who own the rights to something do not always expect, or desire, to profit from it. It's just information. They just want to own it and take credit for it. And that's usually the case with something as mundane as a codified system of rules for an athletic event. Well, with the exception, of course, of the ASA and NFHS.

Let's face it - they are the exception in this regard. I guess the real question is: Why?

The answer can't be: Because that's the way they want to do it!

That's not an explanation - that's an observation ... an obvious one at that.

Why do you feel the need to be such a sycophant for these organizations? I think they're great organizations that do some great things for America's youth - but that doesn't mean they cannot be open to some constructive criticism.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Are you saying there's not a difference?

I can listen to Britney Spears' songs for free on the radio - can't I?

No, it is not free. The station pays royalties, which are (in turn) paid by the advertisers.

I can watch the movie "Saving Private Ryan" on CBS when it airs,

Again, not free. Paid for by the advertisers.

"Intellectual property" can be invoked on countless things. And many people do! But just because they do does not necessarily mean it is wisest to make the product difficult to access.

It is not at all difficult. It is just not free.

Besides, many people who own the rights to something do not always expect, or desire, to profit from it. It's just information. They just want to own it and take credit for it.

And, this is relevant how?

The answer can't be: Because that's the way they want to do it!

Why not? It is, after all, their property.

Why do you feel the need to be such a sycophant for these organizations?

Nice try at an insult. Maybe you don't actually understand the meaning of the word. In fact, I am merely pointing out that just because you want it to be free does not in and of itself constitute a criticism. There are plenty of "free" rule books available for the education of the general public. How has that worked, so far, in educating daddy?

ASA and NFHS choose to not make their rule codes available for free download or free online browsing. All of your high-sounding arguments really just boil down to you wanting it free of charge.

[CecilOne]

This topic has become useless for softball. If anyone sees something new and useful in it, please letthe rest of us know in another topic. Actually, I'm hoping not to have to scroll through this one anymore, but Christmas has past.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

This topic has become useless for softball. If anyone sees something new and useful in it, please letthe rest of us know in another topic. Actually, I'm hoping not to have to scroll through this one anymore, but Christmas has past.

Then don't read it! That's the beauty of the internet. Nobody is guiding your mouse, are they?

It is about softball! If the topic bores you, don't read it. There are plenty of threads I don't find interesting, so I choose not to read them. For instance, I could care less about a discussion about the latest and greatest umpire mask.

Which is the lightest?

Is it comfortable?

How much did it cost?

I can understand how some might be interested in a thread like that - I'm just not one of them. I certainly won't take the time to interject myself and tell them that I don't care about the topic. I just don't click on it.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[SRW]

Mr. Piano,
er...
Mr. Emerling:

You contradict yourself. You obviously don't understand your own argument.

All interests are best served if information regarding a sport is readily available to all; which would include: officials, coaches, players, fans, and casual observers.

You forget about the interests of the copyright owners.

What would be the purpose of not making the rules widely known and easily accessible, even for just casual perusal by an interested party?

They are. Buy the CD or buy the book. Contact your local Commissioner or JO Commissioner for a copy. You can even order the CD online, which is readily available to anyone, as Dakota previously pointed out.

If somebody wants their own copy, I have no problem with them having to pay for it.

You obviously do if you want the copyright owners to post it online for free... hence your next quote:

I get it! But you always have to pay for it. It's never free and it's not readily available.

Duh. Of course. If I write and publish a book, why would I want to give it away for free? And as to it being readily available, see above.

I'll bet more copies of the MLB rulebook are sold than the ASA rulebook, and the MLB rules are online for all to see.

40,000 ASA umpires buy their book each year, along with thousands of coaches. Do you really think over 60,000 copies of MLB's ORB are sold each year?

Bah, I'm tired of feeding the troll.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Dakota

No, it is not free. The station pays royalties, which are (in turn) paid by the advertisers.Again, not free. Paid for by the advertisers.

It is not at all difficult. It is just not free.

What - websites don't have paid advertisements? In many ways, websites work in a very similar fashion as TV/radio stations. There is a fine line between "web hits" and "Nielson Ratings." When you *click* on one of those advertisements, it frequently brings additional revenue to the web owner in additional to the costs of placing the ad in the first place.

It works in a similar fashion. Frequently, the "free" information on a website isn't so "free."

If you haven't noticed, the ASA website has no shortages of opportunities to buy stuff - although, they usually don't choose to sell anything that is not specifically sold by them. I haven't checked, but I doubt you will find a link (or advertisement) for Honig's umpire equipment anywhere on their website. But that's their choosing. That's their right. I'm just saying that it doesn't have to be that way. In fact, the ASA might even sell more of their stuff if there was more of an enticement to visit their website.

And, this is relevant how?

That is a comment that most people make when they're running out of things to say; as if the question, in itself, somehow diminishes the relevance.

It's relevance should be obvious. You seem to be making the argument that because they own the rights to the rules, they should maintain the rules' limited availability. I'm pointing out that plenty of people do not exercise their ownership in that manner. I'm suggesting that the ASA exercise their ownership in a more liberal fashion - for the greater good. It's just my opinion - and I suspect many others hold the same opinion.

That's how it's relevant!

In fact, I am merely pointing out that just because you want it to be free does not in and of itself constitute a criticism. There are plenty of "free" rule books available for the education of the general public. How has that worked, so far, in educating daddy?

So you'll agree that many fans are woefully ignorant of the rules? I agree!

How could it make things worse by making the rules available for somebody, like a fan, who may have a passing interest in some aspect of the game? ... especially since you seem to be acknowledging that it's a problem. Wouldn't it be better if daddy was better educated?

I say, the opportunity to be a better educated fan (whether they choose to take the opportunity to educate themselves or not) is a good thing.

ASA and NFHS choose to not make their rule codes available for free download or free online browsing. All of your high-sounding arguments really just boil down to you wanting it free of charge.

I guess we can just agree to disagree.

I have the book - legally! I don't need a bootleg copy of it. But it would be nice, at times, when I don't have the book in my back pocket, whenever I have a question, to be able to fire up the computer and check it out online. It would be a nice convenience even for an umpire or coach who actually does get a copy of the book after registering.

I've seen posts within this very forum where a poster will say something like: "I'm at work, I don't have my rulebook available, but I think that it says such-in-such ..."

I guess we can say that we got the annual debate over online rules out of the way early this year.

If you're convinced the softball world is better served by the manner in which the ASA and NFHS chooses to dessimenate their system of rules, I can see I cannot convince you otherwise.

At least admit that it is highly more likely that their decision is more of a business decision than it is a softball decision. And, in my opinion, I don't even think it's a very good business decision.

I guess I'm both an idealist and a purist on this matter.

{que up John Lennon's "Imagine" - but make sure it's not a bootleg mp3!}

David Emerling
Memphis, TN