The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 18, 2007, 04:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
brain teaser

This was sent out to our local group this week.

Assume JO game, ASA rules:

You (plate umpire) and your partner (base umpire) walk on to the field and see a player dressed differently (warm ups and a head scarf). It doesn't look gang related. ASA says that all players must dress alike and the rest of the team is in shorts and ball caps. What do you do?

The player's head scarf (not a dew rag or hankerchief), IS a part of her religious beliefs. So now how do you rule?

What if the young lady was wearing a dew rag and she was bald because of Chemotherapy?
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 18, 2007, 04:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
If non-Championship play, in all cases, let it ride.

Yeah, I know, cop out.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 18, 2007, 04:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Texas
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
If non-Championship play, in all cases, let it ride.

Yeah, I know, cop out.

not a cop out at all -- let 'em play!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 18, 2007, 05:19pm
JEL JEL is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3afan
not a cop out at all -- let 'em play!

and if it is championship play, let the UIC make the ruling!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 18, 2007, 07:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEL
and if it is championship play, let the UIC make the ruling!
UIC would defer to the tournament director
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 18, 2007, 08:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: north central Pa
Posts: 2,360
I agree, let them play

Several years ago, we had something similar to this with a player wearing something in honor of a number of her high school classmates and a couple of teammates - they had all died in a plane crash.
I uic'd that tournament and strongly suggested to the TD that he make the statement that "for this tournament, that patch is part of her uniform" and that's what was done.
__________________
Steve M
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 18, 2007, 09:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,554
Assume JO game, ASA Championship Play as a TD

[quote]You (plate umpire) and your partner (base umpire) walk on to the field and see a player dressed differently (warm ups and a head scarf). ASA says that all players must dress alike and the rest of the team is in shorts and ball caps. What do you do?[quote]

Unless the sweats are the same color scheme as the team uniform, they've got to go.

Quote:
It doesn't look gang related.
Don't care, nor relevant

Quote:

The player's head scarf (not a dew rag or hankerchief), IS a part of her religious beliefs. So now how do you rule?
If it is manufactured as headwear it is legal as long as it is the same color as the headwear her teammates are wearing and it is worn as a headband.

I know I'll hear about this one, but I really don't care about the player's religious beliefs. The player and parents voluntarily joined the team and signed an ASA roster. When they signed the roster, they agreed to play under the rules put forth by ASA.

They agreed to conform to the rules, not to expect the rules to conform to them. If it is that important to the player and her parents, they should convince the other players to conform to her by wearing similarly colored headwear or none at all which would alleviate any issue with the headwear.

Quote:
What if the young lady was wearing a dew rag and she was bald because of Chemotherapy?
The player can wear a cap and I really don't care why the player is bald. Again, the player signed the roster and agreed to play by the rules.


That is my "official" stance. In a game, I probably would not care unless there is an issue raised by an opponent, then everything reverts to the official stance.

Last edited by IRISHMAFIA; Thu Oct 18, 2007 at 09:06pm.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 19, 2007, 07:58am
Ref Ump Welsch
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
If the headwear is religious related, I'm not going to force it off. I don't want a bounty on my head from the religious leaders!

As far as the chemotherapy example, she can wear a hat.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 19, 2007, 10:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
OK, somewhat more serious answer.

In anything below championship play, I will ignore all of the headwear violations such as these. If an issue is made of it by the opponent, I'll tell them to send for the TD / UIC, but we are continuing to play in the meantime. I may (if the coach has been a PITA) also let him know that if he want all non-playing rules called literally and by-the-book, he'd better make sure his team is squeaky clean, or be careful what you ask for.

In Championship play, I may allow the warmup pants (even if not alike in color / design, etc to the standard uniforms) if weather is a factor. If it is only modesty stemming from religious belief, not allowed unless they meet the requirements of being "like in color".

Headgear is another matter. A headband, visor, or cap may be worn, and if worn, must be worn "properly", and must be alike in color. There is no exception in headgear due to religion, attitude, cool-dude factor, or medical condition.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 20, 2007, 09:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
I wouldnt care unless there was some pressure to care. In a non protestable situation (ie most tournies & showcases), the pressure would have to be higher than the opposing teams coach.
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 20, 2007, 02:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hurricane, WV
Posts: 800
Send a message via AIM to Mountaineer Send a message via Yahoo to Mountaineer
I think I would take some preventive measures by going to the opposing coach and heading off the problem. "Hey coach, they have a young lady going through chemo and she's wearing that scarf on her head to cover the hair loss. I told them I was OK with it but needed to check with you too."

At that point even he would would admit to being an a$$ if he said NO.
__________________
Larry Ledbetter
NFHS, NCAA, NAIA

The best part about beating your head against the wall is it feels so good when you stop.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 20, 2007, 02:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
I think I would take some preventive measures by going to the opposing coach and heading off the problem. "Hey coach, they have a young lady going through chemo and she's wearing that scarf on her head to cover the hair loss. I told them I was OK with it but needed to check with you too."

At that point even he would would admit to being an a$$ if he said NO.
Great answer Larry. I had a HS game and noticed before game time that one team had two players with the same number. Went to the other coach, before the game started, and asked him if he wanted me to prevent her from playing. Coach said no problem. Whenever possible the best way to handle these is before they become an issue.
__________________
"Experience is valued least by those without it."
ASA, NFHS, PONY, USSSA, NCAA
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 21, 2007, 11:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 143
Anyone know if a girl who is bald due to chemo is wearing a head scarf as a medical necessity or from vanity? I have seen older women who were bald from chemo without headscarves, and I can tell you from experience, just being bald does not require a head scarf under a baseball cap (don't ask me how I know!)

If it is a medical necessity, I would think let it go? Especially if it is small and made to cover the scalp rather than a long flowing scarf that does not have a medical purpose.

When she was 12U, my DD's team played against a team that had a girl who was bald because of chemo and wearing a head scarf under her cap. Our team chanted a lot and they started the "Hey first baseman, tie your shoe" chant and when they got to "Hey third baseman, fix your hair" it happened to be the girl with cancer playing 3rd. Our girls realized it as they were saying it and the chant sort of died off, but the other coach was sure we did it on purpose, complained to the ump, who warned us about USC. That team had it in for us the rest of the season.
__________________
Matt
Not an official,
just a full-time dad,
part-time coach,
here to learn.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 21, 2007, 02:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMatt
When she was 12U, my DD's team played against a team that had a girl who was bald because of chemo and wearing a head scarf under her cap. Our team chanted a lot and they started the "Hey first baseman, tie your shoe" chant and when they got to "Hey third baseman, fix your hair" it happened to be the girl with cancer playing 3rd. Our girls realized it as they were saying it and the chant sort of died off, but the other coach was sure we did it on purpose, complained to the ump, who warned us about USC. That team had it in for us the rest of the season.
I wouldn't have waited that long. You cheer for your team, not against the opponent.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 21, 2007, 07:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Texas
Posts: 425
if its a girl going thru chemo then she wears it, no if ands or buts. i'm not asking the opposing coach either. she's playing, period. if its a tourny and the TD or UIC says no, then he can find another ump.

my mom is bald right now due to chemo - maybe its clouded my judgement - so be it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brain Teaser question David Emerling Softball 43 Tue Sep 04, 2007 09:42pm
off season brain teaser LLPA13UmpDan Baseball 48 Tue Dec 26, 2006 01:31pm
Slightly OT: Brain Teaser rotationslim Basketball 9 Mon Apr 24, 2006 06:59am
Off season brain teaser FredFan7 Football 11 Thu Mar 09, 2006 06:35pm
Brain teaser. Mike Simonds Football 4 Tue Jul 22, 2003 01:34pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1