Touching White only at First but killing the play?

[DaveASA/FED]

ok, after reading some of the other posts I missed during my week of umpiring I am scared to say where I was so lets just say it was an ASA tourney. No details so you can't check up on me.....

Anyway..I am 3rd base ump with a runner at 1st and a double play ball hit to SS I watch the play at 2nd and continue to make sure there is no INT by the retired runner then shift my eyes to first and see the runner trip and fall hard past first base. I didn't see the contact just her falling. Anyway F3 throws to pitcher in the circle 1st base ump calls time as the runner is still face down kind of moving around a little (just had the wind knocked out of her). NOW after he kills it defense starts talking about runner only touching white base....pitcher walks out of circle and touches first saying she touched the white only.

So I ask you what do you all have on this one???? Since you didn't get to see it (and neither did I for this part) the 1st BU and Plate ump said it looked like she got all white when she went accross 1st. I will get responses and then let you know what we ruled after the 3 of us got together and discussed it.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I have a runner safe at first. Once the umpire called time for the injury, he cannot allow an appeal until she has an opportunity to complete her running responsibilities. Since she was temporarily unable, the umpire must place her on the base he believes she earned.

In this case, she obviously is awarded first base, no appeal can be heard until she (or a substitute, if necessary) returns to first base; and then, it is obviously too late for her to be called out on appeal.

[Steve M]

Dave,
By rule, that particular appeal must be a live ball appeal. You didn't have a live ball, so the runner is now on 1B.

[dtwsd]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Dave,
By rule, that particular appeal must be a live ball appeal. You didn't have a live ball, so the runner is now on 1B.

Ditto! This is a live ball appeal only.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

ok, after reading some of the other posts I missed during my week of umpiring I am scared to say where I was so lets just say it was an ASA tourney. No details so you can't check up on me.....

Dave,

I called all around looking for you, but the only response I got was "Dave's not here!"

[DaveASA/FED]

After discussion that is what we did. Put the runner back on first and went on with life since 1st base ump killed the play there was no chance for a live ball appeal. Oops for killing it "early"!

And Mike your right...."No Dave's not here man...." We got done with the if game about 9pm Sunday (10pm my time) and I started the 3.5 hour drive home!!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

... Oops for killing it "early"! ...

Not necessarily... player lying on the ground, not getting up, wind knocked out (or could be worse)... may have been a legitimate DEAD BALL (maybe, depending on age of players, HTBT, etc.)

[DaveASA/FED]

Ya that is why I put the quotes around the early. That is argueable, but to the defense that tried to make a live ball appeal....it was killed early! That was actually another question I was going to ask, but I know there is so much HTBT items in it I did not ask it, but since we are talking about it anyway.....

When would you kill the ball in this case? If you knew she only hit the white, and there was a chance of a live ball appeal, 14U and the worst you could have had was a twisted ankle, maybe the breath knocked out of her from the fall (not like a direct shot to the head, or chest that is life threatening).

[Andy]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Ya that is why I put the quotes around the early. That is argueable, but to the defense that tried to make a live ball appeal....it was killed early! That was actually another question I was going to ask, but I know there is so much HTBT items in it I did not ask it, but since we are talking about it anyway.....

When would you kill the ball in this case? If you knew she only hit the white, and there was a chance of a live ball appeal, 14U and the worst you could have had was a twisted ankle, maybe the breath knocked out of her from the fall (not like a direct shot to the head, or chest that is life threatening).

Dave...you said it yourself....HTBT.

This is purely a judgement call by the umpire at the time that it happens. In hindsight, you thought the play may have been killed too soon because the player just had the wind knocked out of her. At the moment it happens, how do you make the determination if the possible injury is life-threatening or not? You don't know the players history, maybe she has asthma or a heart condition or......

My feeling is that you err on the side of safety in a situation like that and kill the play if you have any doubts. Call her coach out there to tend to her.

if the other team and/or coach complains, my response is " I would have taken the same action for your player"

[DaveASA/FED]

Andy,
I agree I was just looking for more input. 1) It is easy now to say she was fine, she got up and kept running and playing the rest of the game. 2) The play was "over", meaning the defense had the ball in the circle and since she was laying on the ground the runner obviously was not trying to advance

I guess my wording was leaning toward thinking the other ump killed it too quick, but honestly I have thought about it and I think I would have done the same darn thing if I was in his position....guess I am just trying to see if anyone here has any different input or other things they consider prior to killing the play. It made NO difference on the outcome of the game, 3rd out next batter...but it always bothers me and makes me second guess when I am on the field and there is an action by the crew that causes an out to be missed like this. Again not beating up anyone, just looking to see if there was different action that should have been taken, or if this is just one of those things that happen!