Pony Rules Softball

[HandCheck7]

Received an email with this situation, what do you all think?

Runner at first no outs. Hard liner at first baseman runner has taken lead, ball deflects off of glove and hops to runner who instinctively catches is and quickly drops ball to ground. Any help appreciated.

[wadeintothem]

I got DB, no pitch, B1 out for leaving early.

ASA anyway...

[NDblue]

How do you know R1 left early?

[HandCheck7]

I don't think R1 left early. Just took normal lead with pitch.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by HandCheck7

Received an email with this situation, what do you all think?

Runner at first no outs. Hard liner at first baseman runner has taken lead, ball deflects off of glove and hops to runner who instinctively catches is and quickly drops ball to ground. Any help appreciated.

I don't know Pony. But, I need more information on the play. Did R1 have time to avoid the ball? Did F4 have a play on the ball to either tag R1 or retire the BR?

Even with this additional information, though, the catch presents a problem, but was it a "defensive" catch (that is, avoid getting hit) or did she "field" the ball?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by HandCheck7

I don't think R1 left early. Just took normal lead with pitch.

sorry bout that, the way it was written I thought the runner was taking a baseball lead.

I agree with dakota, not enough details to rule..

For all I know, the F3 picked up the ball, swipe tagged the runner then tagged 1B for the double play, in which case, I got me two outs on the play.

[debeau]

People , the situation is as it stands .
Thats what happened , so , what do you do .
Dead ball .
If another fielder had a chance to make a play then interference , if not return runner to 1st base .

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by debeau

People , the situation is as it stands .
Thats what happened , so , what do you do .
Dead ball .
If another fielder had a chance to make a play then interference , if not return runner to 1st base .

1) Oh come on, even your answer has a variable. You cant say "take the scenario as its written" and then answer:
"well its either ____ or its ___".

This scenario lacks and is poorly written.

2) I dont agree a deflected ball that hits a runner is an immediate DB.

You have to delay that call (even if for only a split second) and determine if there is INT.

The primary criteria with INT is that there is Interference.

A deflected ball which hits a runner is not an immediate dead ball. Interference and DB when the runner interferes with a fielder who has a chance to make an out from a deflected ball.

[wadeintothem]

I have another question rereading your answer, under what circumstance would you put the runner back?

[debeau]

Lets think That scenario happens on a softball diamond , what do YOU do .
This play was put to me at a ISF seminar last year and Merle Butler stated just that .
I didint ask the reasoning cos at an ISF seminar you dont , you just accept it .
By the way the scenario was runner catches the ball not was hit by the ball .
I actually agrre with your statement BUT this runner actually caught the ball that is intentionally caught the ball .

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by debeau

Lets think That scenario happens on a softball diamond , what do YOU do .
This play was put to me at a ISF seminar last year and Merle Butler stated just that .
I didint ask the reasoning cos at an ISF seminar you dont , you just accept it .
By the way the scenario was runner catches the ball not was hit by the ball .
I actually agrre with your statement BUT this runner actually caught the ball that is intentionally caught the ball .

OK, so I dont know ISF rules.. to me, we have DB and INT or we dont. If you rule DB INT you get the Runner and maybe the batter. I dont see where you would put the runner back... which I guess means either A) do-over b) batter called out.

[debeau]

My thoughts exactly .
But like I said you dont argue with Merle Butler at an ISF seminar .
But in saying that it is logical , but not nessecarily , within the rules that you kill the ball .
Then you put the runner back to the last base legally touched .
Offense happy that there wasnt two outs and defense happy that the runner didnt advance .
I didnt make it clear of course that the BR would be out .

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by debeau

My thoughts exactly .
But like I said you dont argue with Merle Butler at an ISF seminar .
But in saying that it is logical , but not nessecarily , within the rules that you kill the ball .
Then you put the runner back to the last base legally touched .
Offense happy that there wasnt two outs and defense happy that the runner didnt advance .
I didnt make it clear of course that the BR would be out .

Well, unless ISF is remarkably different in this area, I think you are representing that guy as dead wrong when he is not here to defend himself. Tell him to sign on , if he thinks that garbage, I'll argue with him.

[debeau]

Wadeintothem
You still havnt answered the scenario as its written .

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by debeau

Wadeintothem
You still havnt answered the scenario as its written .

Sure I did, in post 11. Whether there is FOR SURE INT on this deflected ball or not cant be answered. In a game, i would probably lean towards INT and a nice little out for me.