What should happen?

[tmielke]

ASA Ruleset

Situation R1 on third, two outs.

Ball is hit to F6 throw to first is slightly off, BR called out. F1 heads home. F3 immediately without delay makes the throw to home to stop the run. R1 beats the throw, PU calls safe.

Defense starts to leave the field, BR stays on first while offense asks the BU for help with a pulled foot on the play at 1st. He chats with the PU, then changes his call to safe at 1st.

Should R1 have been returned to 3rd or should the run have scored? When was the ball dead?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by tmielke

Should R1 have been returned to 3rd

Not at all.

Originally Posted by tmielke

...or should the run have scored?

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by tmielke

When was the ball dead?

Irrelevant.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tmielke

ASA Ruleset

Situation R1 on third, two outs.

Ball is hit to F6 throw to first is slightly off, BR called out. F1 heads home. F3 immediately without delay makes the throw to home to stop the run. R1 beats the throw, PU calls safe.

Defense starts to leave the field, BR stays on first while offense asks the BU for help with a pulled foot on the play at 1st. He chats with the PU, then changes his call to safe at 1st.

Should R1 have been returned to 3rd or should the run have scored? When was the ball dead?

The request for the BU to go to his partner for help on a pulled foot had no effect on R1 or the play at home. Run scores id BR ruled safe. If the result of the umpire conference is BR is safe, then you call the defense back out onto the field and resume play with a runner on 1B and 2 outs.

If, OTOH, it was ruled the call of OUT on the BR caused the defense to not make the play at home, then R1 would be returned to 3rd.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

The request for the BU to go to his partner for help on a pulled foot had no effect on R1 or the play at home. Run scores id BR ruled safe. If the result of the umpire conference is BR is safe, then you call the defense back out onto the field and resume play with a runner on 1B and 2 outs.

If, OTOH, it was ruled the call of OUT on the BR caused the defense to not make the play at home, then R1 would be returned to 3rd.

Well, the OP says that F3 immediately turned and made a play for R1 heading home. Doesn't sound like F3 was hindered, so the likelihood of INT is pretty low. And call me crazy, but if that were actually the case, wouldn't R1 also be out? Defense has to be able to make the play, and BR is already out...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, the OP says that F3 immediately turned and made a play for R1 heading home. Doesn't sound like F3 was hindered, so the likelihood of INT is pretty low. ...

I agree... that's why I said "OTOH"...

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And call me crazy, but if that were actually the case, wouldn't R1 also be out? Defense has to be able to make the play, and BR is already out...

OK, you're crazy!

Seriously, I don't understand why you think R1 would also be out, and BR would not be out on the call reversal, right?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

OK, you're crazy!

Seriously, I don't understand why you think R1 would also be out, and BR would not be out on the call reversal, right?

Sorry... I'm still waking from my lunch's food coma and meeting that followed immediately after, and I totally misread what you said.

I envisioned something different while thinking of your post - something that actually happened during one of my games. Same scenario, though only 1 out. B2 hits a ground ball to F3, who fields it cleanly and steps on 1B with her left foot for the 2nd out. F3 then steps forward towards HP while R1 is heading home. However, the BR is 4' in fair territory and is about 15' from F3, effectively blocking the throw. F3 then steps with her left foot to her right, crossing over her right leg and throws a lob to F2, who still nearly made the play on R1 at HP. I called DB, talked it over with PU (just to be sure my mind wasn't screwing with me), and we called R1 out.

Offensive team went nuts, pure mayhem, dogs and cats were living together. Mass Hysteria.

I had a play this weekend, fly ball to right field, caught. Runner on 3b tags and comes home. BR running to 1b sees catch and turns across infield to 3b dugout. Throw back in to F3 who turns to throw home but stops. BR is walking between F3 and home. Coach asks for INT but I told him the fielder had to at least make a throw. He asked if his fielder had to hit the girl in the back? I said no sir, if she had thrown the ball over everyones head I could have called INT but she had to make a throw of some kind. Do you think the no call was correct?

[celebur]

Originally Posted by softball_junky

I had a play this weekend, fly ball to right field, caught. Runner on 3b tags and comes home. BR running to 1b sees catch and turns across infield to 3b dugout. Throw back in to F3 who turns to throw home but stops. BR is walking between F3 and home. Coach asks for INT but I told him the fielder had to at least make a throw. He asked if his fielder had to hit the girl in the back? I said no sir, if she had thrown the ball over everyones head I could have called INT but she had to make a throw of some kind. Do you think the no call was correct?

I'm probably wrong, but that hasn't stopped me before, so. . .

Normally, I'd say that yes, the no call was correct. But in your case, that retired BR had no business being there, so I wouldn't be giving her any leaway. I'd probably call the interference in this particular case.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by softball_junky

I had a play this weekend, fly ball to right field, caught. Runner on 3b tags and comes home. BR running to 1b sees catch and turns across infield to 3b dugout. Throw back in to F3 who turns to throw home but stops. BR is walking between F3 and home. Coach asks for INT but I told him the fielder had to at least make a throw. He asked if his fielder had to hit the girl in the back? I said no sir, if she had thrown the ball over everyones head I could have called INT but she had to make a throw of some kind. Do you think the no call was correct?

Yes, the no call was correct, but your explanation was not completely right. Yes, she does have to make a throw or attempt to throw - but throwing the ball over everyones' heads is just a bad throw and is not interference. Had the fielder moved and then thrown, ok I can get interference there.

[BCCanuck]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Yes, the no call was correct, but your explanation was not completely right. Yes, she does have to make a throw or attempt to throw - but throwing the ball over everyones' heads is just a bad throw and is not interference. Had the fielder moved and then thrown, ok I can get interference there.

The OP says " F3 turns to throw,but stops" ( on a play like this I have an image of a quick turn, arm cocked, ready to throw - untill she sees the retired B-R in the way). Wouldn't you call that an attempt to throw?

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by BCCanuck

The OP says " F3 turns to throw,but stops" ( on a play like this I have an image of a quick turn, arm cocked, ready to throw - untill she sees the retired B-R in the way). Wouldn't you call that an attempt to throw?

BCC - I'm not sure what exactly I read, but I missed completely that this was the retired B-R. Yeah, that's an attempt and the retired player has zero reason to be there.

[debeau]

Was the fielder impeded confused or interfered with in making the throw ?
If yes the we have interference .
Personally I would have interference .

[Dakota]

I'm not giving any benefit of the doubt to a retired BR wandering across the infield during a live ball play. Reads like interference to me, R1 out.

[Andy]

While I agree that the retired BR had no business being where she was, haven't we said many times here that in order to call interference, there has to be a play that was interfered with?

We cannot determine the reason that F3 did not complete the throw...ie, how close was R1 to home?, did the ball slip in F3s hand, etc.

This play is HTBT at best to see the exact positions of F3, the retired BR, and R1.

I'm just throwing this out for further discussion...I believe that I could justify a call or no-call either way.

[Dakota]

You're right, of course.

But if I (as PU) am set anticipating a close play as the cutoff player turns to throw home, and all of a sudden the BR walks into the middle of things, the cutoff holds up with that "get out of my way" look, and no throw comes... I'm probably calling interference.