The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 11:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Charlevoix, MI
Posts: 50
What should happen?

ASA Ruleset

Situation R1 on third, two outs.

Ball is hit to F6 throw to first is slightly off, BR called out. F1 heads home. F3 immediately without delay makes the throw to home to stop the run. R1 beats the throw, PU calls safe.

Defense starts to leave the field, BR stays on first while offense asks the BU for help with a pulled foot on the play at 1st. He chats with the PU, then changes his call to safe at 1st.

Should R1 have been returned to 3rd or should the run have scored? When was the ball dead?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 11:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 4,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmielke
Should R1 have been returned to 3rd
Not at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmielke
...or should the run have scored?
Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmielke
When was the ball dead?
Irrelevant.
__________________
Dave

I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 11:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmielke
ASA Ruleset

Situation R1 on third, two outs.

Ball is hit to F6 throw to first is slightly off, BR called out. F1 heads home. F3 immediately without delay makes the throw to home to stop the run. R1 beats the throw, PU calls safe.

Defense starts to leave the field, BR stays on first while offense asks the BU for help with a pulled foot on the play at 1st. He chats with the PU, then changes his call to safe at 1st.

Should R1 have been returned to 3rd or should the run have scored? When was the ball dead?
The request for the BU to go to his partner for help on a pulled foot had no effect on R1 or the play at home. Run scores id BR ruled safe. If the result of the umpire conference is BR is safe, then you call the defense back out onto the field and resume play with a runner on 1B and 2 outs.

If, OTOH, it was ruled the call of OUT on the BR caused the defense to not make the play at home, then R1 would be returned to 3rd.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 02:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 4,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
The request for the BU to go to his partner for help on a pulled foot had no effect on R1 or the play at home. Run scores id BR ruled safe. If the result of the umpire conference is BR is safe, then you call the defense back out onto the field and resume play with a runner on 1B and 2 outs.

If, OTOH, it was ruled the call of OUT on the BR caused the defense to not make the play at home, then R1 would be returned to 3rd.
Well, the OP says that F3 immediately turned and made a play for R1 heading home. Doesn't sound like F3 was hindered, so the likelihood of INT is pretty low. And call me crazy, but if that were actually the case, wouldn't R1 also be out? Defense has to be able to make the play, and BR is already out...
__________________
Dave

I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 02:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp
Well, the OP says that F3 immediately turned and made a play for R1 heading home. Doesn't sound like F3 was hindered, so the likelihood of INT is pretty low. ...
I agree... that's why I said "OTOH"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp
And call me crazy, but if that were actually the case, wouldn't R1 also be out? Defense has to be able to make the play, and BR is already out...
OK, you're crazy!

Seriously, I don't understand why you think R1 would also be out, and BR would not be out on the call reversal, right?
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 02:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 4,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
OK, you're crazy!

Seriously, I don't understand why you think R1 would also be out, and BR would not be out on the call reversal, right?
Sorry... I'm still waking from my lunch's food coma and meeting that followed immediately after, and I totally misread what you said.

I envisioned something different while thinking of your post - something that actually happened during one of my games. Same scenario, though only 1 out. B2 hits a ground ball to F3, who fields it cleanly and steps on 1B with her left foot for the 2nd out. F3 then steps forward towards HP while R1 is heading home. However, the BR is 4' in fair territory and is about 15' from F3, effectively blocking the throw. F3 then steps with her left foot to her right, crossing over her right leg and throws a lob to F2, who still nearly made the play on R1 at HP. I called DB, talked it over with PU (just to be sure my mind wasn't screwing with me), and we called R1 out.

Offensive team went nuts, pure mayhem, dogs and cats were living together. Mass Hysteria.
__________________
Dave

I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 04:18pm
softball_junky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I had a play this weekend, fly ball to right field, caught. Runner on 3b tags and comes home. BR running to 1b sees catch and turns across infield to 3b dugout. Throw back in to F3 who turns to throw home but stops. BR is walking between F3 and home. Coach asks for INT but I told him the fielder had to at least make a throw. He asked if his fielder had to hit the girl in the back? I said no sir, if she had thrown the ball over everyones head I could have called INT but she had to make a throw of some kind. Do you think the no call was correct?

Last edited by softball_junky; Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 04:21pm.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 04:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by softball_junky
I had a play this weekend, fly ball to right field, caught. Runner on 3b tags and comes home. BR running to 1b sees catch and turns across infield to 3b dugout. Throw back in to F3 who turns to throw home but stops. BR is walking between F3 and home. Coach asks for INT but I told him the fielder had to at least make a throw. He asked if his fielder had to hit the girl in the back? I said no sir, if she had thrown the ball over everyones head I could have called INT but she had to make a throw of some kind. Do you think the no call was correct?
I'm probably wrong, but that hasn't stopped me before, so. . .

Normally, I'd say that yes, the no call was correct. But in your case, that retired BR had no business being there, so I wouldn't be giving her any leaway. I'd probably call the interference in this particular case.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 05:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: north central Pa
Posts: 2,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by softball_junky
I had a play this weekend, fly ball to right field, caught. Runner on 3b tags and comes home. BR running to 1b sees catch and turns across infield to 3b dugout. Throw back in to F3 who turns to throw home but stops. BR is walking between F3 and home. Coach asks for INT but I told him the fielder had to at least make a throw. He asked if his fielder had to hit the girl in the back? I said no sir, if she had thrown the ball over everyones head I could have called INT but she had to make a throw of some kind. Do you think the no call was correct?
Yes, the no call was correct, but your explanation was not completely right. Yes, she does have to make a throw or attempt to throw - but throwing the ball over everyones' heads is just a bad throw and is not interference. Had the fielder moved and then thrown, ok I can get interference there.
__________________
Steve M
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 07:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vancouver,Canada
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M
Yes, the no call was correct, but your explanation was not completely right. Yes, she does have to make a throw or attempt to throw - but throwing the ball over everyones' heads is just a bad throw and is not interference. Had the fielder moved and then thrown, ok I can get interference there.
The OP says " F3 turns to throw,but stops" ( on a play like this I have an image of a quick turn, arm cocked, ready to throw - untill she sees the retired B-R in the way). Wouldn't you call that an attempt to throw?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2007, 08:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: north central Pa
Posts: 2,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCCanuck
The OP says " F3 turns to throw,but stops" ( on a play like this I have an image of a quick turn, arm cocked, ready to throw - untill she sees the retired B-R in the way). Wouldn't you call that an attempt to throw?
BCC - I'm not sure what exactly I read, but I missed completely that this was the retired B-R. Yeah, that's an attempt and the retired player has zero reason to be there.
__________________
Steve M
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 20, 2007, 12:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 382
Was the fielder impeded confused or interfered with in making the throw ?
If yes the we have interference .
Personally I would have interference .
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 20, 2007, 07:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
I'm not giving any benefit of the doubt to a retired BR wandering across the infield during a live ball play. Reads like interference to me, R1 out.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 20, 2007, 11:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
While I agree that the retired BR had no business being where she was, haven't we said many times here that in order to call interference, there has to be a play that was interfered with?

We cannot determine the reason that F3 did not complete the throw...ie, how close was R1 to home?, did the ball slip in F3s hand, etc.

This play is HTBT at best to see the exact positions of F3, the retired BR, and R1.

I'm just throwing this out for further discussion...I believe that I could justify a call or no-call either way.
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 20, 2007, 12:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
You're right, of course.

But if I (as PU) am set anticipating a close play as the cutoff player turns to throw home, and all of a sudden the BR walks into the middle of things, the cutoff holds up with that "get out of my way" look, and no throw comes... I'm probably calling interference.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
It CAN happen anywhere U_of_I_Blue Baseball 9 Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:09pm
Could this happen? lukealex Basketball 22 Tue May 31, 2005 09:22am
this doesn't happen much ChrisSportsFan Basketball 5 Thu Jan 13, 2005 03:09pm
I let it happen again ranjo Basketball 3 Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:27am
Why does this happen to me? :) Mark Padgett Basketball 9 Mon Dec 27, 1999 01:48am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:11pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1