Tie Breaker Runner on Second Base

[Four Seam]

ASA tournament, tied game goes on to eighth inning. As each team goes on offense, umpire asks scorekeeper who made the last out in seventh inning and places that player on second base. Umpire is technically incorrect...player to be placed on second base is player scheduled to bat last in the eighth inning. While driving home I was trying to think of all the ways in which the player who made the last out and the player scheduled to bat last could be different:
Last out made on force play at any base other than first.
Runner caught stealing
Runner other than batter-runner out for interference.
Runner out on appeal.
Batted out of order.

Can you think of others?

[CecilOne]

Not other possibilities, but comments.

The "Batted out of order" sitch can be confusing based on whether the last to appear as a batter completed a turn at bat. Of course, no pitch and someone out for BOO means that player leads off the next inning.

I try to think about whether the next inning might be ITB, then make a mental note of who batted last. When ITB starts, I ask "who is up?"; not who made the last out. Hopefully that matches with my mental note and I tell the coach "number 00 is on 2nd".

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Four Seam

ASA tournament, tied game goes on to eighth inning. As each team goes on offense, umpire asks scorekeeper who made the last out in seventh inning and places that player on second base. Umpire is technically incorrect...player to be placed on second base is player scheduled to bat last in the eighth inning. While driving home I was trying to think of all the ways in which the player who made the last out and the player scheduled to bat last could be different:
Last out made on force play at any base other than first.
Runner caught stealing
Runner other than batter-runner out for interference.
Runner out on appeal.
Batted out of order.

Can you think of others?

Why would you think of others when its not applicable to the rule?

The umpire was incorrect in asking for the "last out".

You ask for the last person who completed their at bat, no the last out.

[NCASAUmp]

Another possibility is during an ASA SP game using the ITB, a runner "leads off" during the pitch. We have a league here in NC that uses the ITB for all SP games, even though it's a JO rule. I actually like this rule being used in other classifications, and I wouldn't be surprised if its use were expanded beyond JO.

[DaveASA/FED]

That is why I always ask the scorekeeper, who is my lead off batter? (#7) ok who is before her in the line up? (#6) Ok coach I should have #6 on 2nd base. That way I don't have to figure all the ways I could be wrong using the last out statement

[Dakota]

I think (could be wrong...) that Four Seam was posting this as kind of a fun exercise, not for a serious discussion of the ITB rule.

[Steve M]

Why is the umpire asking this? That is not part of the ump's job - it's pretty much the same thing as preventing a batting out of order from occurring.

I could see this in league play, but not in a tournament.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Steve M

That is not part of the ump's job.

Speaking ASA, I disagree. It is, specifically, the umpire's job. From RS 54, "It is the responsibility of the umpire and scorer to notify the teams involved as to which player starts the half inning at second base."

[Dutch Alex]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Speaking ASA, I disagree. It is, specifically, the umpire's job. From RS 54, "It is the responsibility of the umpire and scorer to notify the teams involved as to which player starts the half inning at second base."

That is why I don't ask the scorer who will be on second! I will check whether we have the same runner on second...

[Ed Maeder]

Plate umpire should have a line-up. Ask the scorer who the first batter for this half inning is and decide yourself who is on the line-up before them. There is also no penalty if the wrong person is put on second so that would make it much different then batting out of order.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Another possibility is during an ASA SP game using the ITB, a runner "leads off" during the pitch. We have a league here in NC that uses the ITB for all SP games, even though it's a JO rule. I actually like this rule being used in other classifications, and I wouldn't be surprised if its use were expanded beyond JO.

ASA Code (510 O for those of you scoring at home) allows for the use of ITB in some levels of championship play for anything, including bubba rec.

"A region or area may, by majority vote, establish procedures for a tiebreaker in qualifiers, regional or area tournaments. ..."