Question

[Arnold A.]

I do not umpire softball, but was asked by a fellow employee about a sitch in a Massachusetts district playoff game(not FEDlandia rules).

Bases loaded, one out.

Batter flies out to left field.

Runner on third tags up and scores.

Runner on second does not tag up and moves over to third.

Left fielder throws ball into second baseman who appeals runner on second leaving early. BU calls R2 out.

PU waves off the run.

BU comes in and says run counts.

After discussion, run is allowed.

Is this the correct call ?

Would you please cite the references so I may pass the information along.

Thank you.

[mcrowder]

If the run scored before the appeal at 2nd, the run counts. An appeal play is a timing play, not a force (despite appearances).

[NCASAUmp]

Well, not knowing which rule book you're using, I can speak as to what ASA says about it. According to ASA, the BU is correct so long as the appeal was AFTER the runner touched home plate. If the appeal for the third out is made before the runner from third touches home, then the run does not count.

If the running situation had been reversed where the runner that didn't tag up was on third and the runner on second did tag and score, then neither run would count if the runner's failure to tag up on third was properly appealed. This situation is rare, but plausible.

I don't have my rule book on me, but I believe it's somewhere in Rule 5 (definitely), Section 4 (maybe). Look for the "fourth out appeal." It covers which runs are counted when there's an appeal.

[Ed Maeder]

NFHS (9-1-1f) ASA (5-5-B2)

[Arnold A.]

Many, many thanks for the quick replies. It is most appreciated.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

NFHS (9-1-1f) ASA (5-5-B2)

Doh! I was close. Not bad for memory.

[CelticNHBlue]

Originally Posted by Arnold A.

in a Massachusetts district playoff game(not FEDlandia rules).

Not so, all MIAA schools use Fed rules (with the exception of the pitching rule - ASA). I'm curious as to which school/game to which you are referring.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

If the run scored before the appeal at 2nd, the run counts. An appeal play is a timing play, not a force (despite appearances).

Confusing wording in 9-1-1. It says "A run is not scored when the third out is declared out on an appeal play resulting in a force out. (This play takes precedence if enforcing it would negate a score.)

My question is, what does the part in parenthesis mean? If makes it sound as if the appeal is a force.

[Bluefoot]

The parenthesis part is referring to an appeal at a base that a runner did not touch but was forced to do so.

Instead of the third out coming on an appeal of a failure to tag up, but rather an appeal of an R2 on 1B who fails to touch 2B on a ground ball. If appealed properly, and if it was the third out, an R1 on 3B's run would not count, since the third out was an appeal which resulted in a force out.